How do we get from here to there?

kewannee edgerider

This cyclist is riding on a 25mph road next to a narrow lane that just went though a pinch point—making it even narrower. He’s staying dutifully to the right of a white fog line where the pavement width varies from a foot and a half to a few inches. Pinned to the edge of the road, he is constantly at a disadvantage. This cyclist experiences constant conflicts which confirm his fear of cars. He can only go where quiet streets take him—making cycling a limited and hardly-useful means of transportation.

high five

This cyclist is riding assertively on the service road beside the High Five interchange in Dallas (one of our nation’s most stunning monuments to the automobile). This cyclist is confident. As a result, she experiences very few conflicts, close calls or violations of her right-of-way. She is not superhuman or a daredevil, she simply understands how traffic works and how she can integrate safely into it. She is empowered with access to the destinations of her choice. She sees cycling as a useful, enjoyable, economical form of transportation.

If you want to establish cycling as a vibrant and sustainable means of transportation, create more of her.

If you want cycling to be accepted as a normal part of the traffic mix, create more of her.

If you want to increase civility toward cyclists, create more of her.

If you want to dispel the notion that all cyclists are scofflaws, create more of her.

If you want to reduce the crash rates which increase the perception that cycling is dangerous, create more of her.

If you want to force motorists to pay more attention to the roadway, create more of her.

If you want to avoid an endless spiral of dependence on expensive infrastructure and the perception of cyclists as a demanding special interest, create more of her.

If you want to promote cycling in the most ethical and beneficial-to-cyclists way, create more of her.

64 replies
  1. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Amazing how few cars are on those Dallas roads. Speed, Mass and Space are all important parameters for roads/streets and highways. You’re doing no one any good if you keep making the picture fit your case instead of the case fit your picture.

  2. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    The “all or nothing” mentality keeps getting in the way.

    Yes, Dennis, if that street were very busy, it would be a more daunting experience for many people. But that’s not Keri’s point. The cyclist in the top photo is behaving as though he was on high-speed, traffic-choked arterial even though he’s on a low-volume, low-speed street, and he would almost certainly consider the roadway in the second photo to be “unrideable” even in the conditions shown.

    I don’t — and I know Keri doesn’t — expect people to suddenly go from cowering at the curb on quiet streets to commanding the lane on University Blvd. during morning rush hour. Because WE didn’t take that path either. We progressed incrementally over YEARS. But new riders can progress much quicker than we did if they learn from experienced and trained cycling instructors.

  3. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    My argument is that “assertive riding” or taking the lane is not the end-all and be-all of bicycle driving. It is a skill and practice to be used when necessary and practicable.

    But, in some instances it’s better to be riding on the side of the road in a bicycle lane, if available, when you’re going 15mph and a car rushes up on your rear from 40 to 65 mph (and the driver is possibly distracted).

  4. Steve A
    Steve A says:

    I ride DFW roads daily. The traffic is typical for a DFW service road in the afternoon rush hour UNLESS the freeway itself is blocked – in that case Lisa would have been trying to filter forward amongst the cars & maybe looking for a quicker alternative.

    The same freeway system that gets Dallas a bad rep makes it pleasant for cyclists riding OTHER than on the freeway. It is MUCH more pleasant to ride here than it was in Seattle or Los Angeles.

    I didn’t ride on a recent visit to Tampa Bay, but its roads look tougher to ride well than any of the above three locales.

  5. 2whls3spds
    2whls3spds says:

    Ride like that in NC on rural roads and you quite often will be run over. FWIW we have had not one but 4 cyclists struck from behind in the past month in my area! “Charges are pending”…

    Aaron

  6. Wayne Pein
    Wayne Pein says:

    Aaron wrote:

    “Ride like that in NC on rural roads and you quite often will be run over. FWIW we have had not one but 4 cyclists struck from behind in the past month in my area! “Charges are pending”…”

    My wife and I ride like that all the time in Chapel Hill NC and in the surrounding counties and it works as advertised.

    It would be interesting to know the specific circumstances of the 4 struck from behind cases. Were any at night/dawn/dusk, in the rain, into a blinding sun, etc? Were the bicyclists hugging the edge inviting motorists to squeeze by? I’ve examined thousands of bicycling collisions, and they sometimes are not what they seem once the nitty gritty is brought to bear.

    Wayne

  7. Steve A
    Steve A says:

    I seriously doubt that Wayne hugs the edge of the road the way the cyclist in the top picture does. He’d be BANNED from Chainguard.

    😉

  8. 2whls3spds
    2whls3spds says:

    @Wayne

    You honestly think the local police and sheriff departments in NC would record that information? Two were in Harnett County in the Bunn and Coats area, one in Sampson County north of Clinton, don’t recall where the other was. But they all occurred during daylight hours.

    Aaron

  9. JohnB
    JohnB says:

    First, on amount of traffic. One thing that sometimes still pleasantly surprises me is how many times the traffic volume does not seem as bad as you would think. Specifically, motor vehicle traffic very often comes in “clumps”, usually based on the state of the latest red light they had to wait for. It also happens even on roads with relatively few lights based on the fact that some cars go slower than others, so eventually the faster ones get lined up behind the slower ones.

    So from the cyclist’s point of view, you tend to get lots of cars passing all at once, interspersed with periods of relative quiet. At least that is often my experience. Of course it’s more challenging to merge for a left turn or to avoid an on-ramp if you happen to be in the middle one of those clumps at the time. That’s when you really do have to negotiate. But OTOH, if you are “between clumps” at the time, it is often a piece of cake!

    But I also still wonder about speed. In my experience, many urban riders with short commutes who are not club riders just aren’t interested in pushing themselves. I don’t want to say that you can only ride vehicularly if you go fast, but I also can’t deny that more closely matching the speed of the traffic around you does help. I admit I still haven’t figured out where to draw the line.

    What would you say to the guy in the upper photo, assuming he can at least ride a straight line and get some confidence, if he nonetheless says “I’m riding a comfort bike, not a road bike, I average about 12 MPH, and I don’t *want* to go any faster. I just don’t think car drivers are going to put up with a guy on a comfort bike going 12 MPH in the middle of the lane.”? I suspect this is what a lot of such people are thinking, even if they don’t say it, when confronted with the concept of vehicular cycling.

    @2whls3pds: Respectfully, if there is no information available about where in the road the cyclists were riding, you and Wayne are equally unable to accurately generalize to support your positions. This is also reminiscent of another recent post where it was conjectured that the treatment of lane-takers is more uniformly respectful throughout different areas of the country than the treatment of those who hug the gutter.

  10. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    As mostly a car driver, when a bicyclist pushes his/her luck and comes too close to my massive vehicle or doesn’t make himself/herself clearly visible on the road, I get really scared that the slightest mistake that bicyclist will make will put me in a situation where there is no alternative but that they will be harmed.

  11. Keri
    Keri says:

    John explained how traffic come in waves. When I ride down a long stretch of road (even at rush hour), I spend 1/3 to 1/2 my time alone on that road. I had always noticed it, but watching the raw videos Brian shot here made it really clear. Here’s an example of that.

    I used the photo of LisaB at the High Five because it illustrates all the points I wanted to make about confident cycling. Being empowered to access all destinations doesn’t require speed and guts. It requires an adjustment of mind—a change of perception. Even the most car-centric roads have room for a cyclist. Perhaps, especially those roads have room for us—they have all those extra lanes.

    As for the speed of the cyclist. It’s not as significant as people think. When Brian and I shot video on University Blvd. we held the speed at 15mph. We could have gone 12 or 10, we chose 15 because it’s a reasonable average and because it’s a long road and we didn’t want to be on it all day. See, the thing that hinders the slow cyclist isn’t the speed of traffic, it’s the distance to destinations.

    Orlando doesn’t have hills, but Dallas does. I found myself going 6-8mph uphill on several 6-lane arterial roads. It wasn’t an issue. In fact, I was chugging slowly up a hill on a 4-lane when I encountered a moving van parked in my path. An SUV driver in the left lane slowed and allowed me to merge into his lane to go around the van. I didn’t even have to ask, I was just doing a shoulder check to see where the platoon of traffic ended.

    The point I keep trying to make is that we have to correct the gross misperceptions first so we can enhance the built environment intelligently. Bicycle facility planning has gotten completely whacked. It’s a federally-funded endeavor and therefore it is populated with people who want money to build stuff, no matter how useless, ridiculous or harmful that stuff is to actual cyclists.

    If the cyclist norm was Lisa in the second photo, there would be no money spent on symbolic BS and a smaller amounts would be more-effectively spent on things that would really help us. Sadly, the norm is the other guy.

  12. Keri
    Keri says:

    “As mostly a car driver, when a bicyclist pushes his/her luck and comes too close to my massive vehicle or doesn’t make himself/herself clearly visible on the road, I get really scared that the slightest mistake that bicyclist will make will put me in a situation where there is no alternative but that they will be harmed.”

    Dennis describes why a cyclist who rides in a prominent lane position, in a predictable straight line, makes motorists less nervous than one who rides on the edge. Here’s another good description from Fred Oswald:

    When a cyclist rides too close to the edge of the road it may look to an approaching motorist that there is enough room to pass within the lane. Many motorists will assume so and start to pass. When the car gets closer, the motorist finally notices there is not quite enough room. This presents three choices, none good: (1) Pass anyway, with insufficient clearance and hope not to hit the cyclist. (2) Swerve suddenly to the left and hope there is no one there to be sideswiped. (3) Hit the brakes and hope no one is following close enough to create a rear-end collision.

    The solution to all these problems is to encourage cyclists to ride far enough into the lane to make it obvious to following drivers that they have to slow down, safely change lanes or wait until it is safe to pass.

  13. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    2whls3pds wrote:
    “Ride like that in NC on rural roads and you quite often will be run over.”

    It’s very important to differentiate between urban/suburban situations and rural. While I wouldn’t go so far as to say “you quite often will be run over,” I would say the risk is higher, because motorists can pay less attention on long straight stretches (a big problem here in Fla.). On winding roads I’m much less concerned because they require constant motorist attention and lower speeds.

    Hugging the edge isn’t the solution. I’ve biked a number of miles on rural NC roads, and the lanes are often quite narrow. Believing that hugging the edge protects you from an oblivious motorist in such circumstances is wishful thinking; a motorist can shift over one foot to the right from his centered track and you’re hit. The solution in rural locales is to be hyper-visible. Solid, neon colors are best.

  14. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    Dennis wrote:
    “…when a bicyclist pushes his/her luck and comes too close to my massive vehicle or doesn’t make himself/herself clearly visible on the road, I get really scared that the slightest mistake that bicyclist will make will put me in a situation where there is no alternative but that they will be harmed.”

    Dennis is speaking from the motorist frame of the roadway, which says motorists own the road and speed is not merely a right, but an imperative.

    “Comes too close to my vehicle…” How does that happen when the bicyclist is ahead of you? (Unless the cyclist is going the wrong way.)

    “Doesn’t make himself/herself clearly visible on the road…”
    How do you know he’s there if he hasn’t “made himself visible”?

    The “slightest mistake” concern has some validity, but here’s what FS 316.130 says:

    “Notwithstanding other provisions of this chapter (i.e., all of Chapter 316 which governs how vehicles and pedestrians are to behave), every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian or any person propelling a human-powered vehicle and give warning when necessary and exercise proper precaution upon observing any child or any obviously confused or incapacitated person.”

    So as a motorist YOU are responsible for avoiding a crash with that bicyclist of questionable skill. (BTW, this “due care clause” is from the Uniform Vehicle Code, so it is found in most if not all state codes, and has been in there for many decades.)

    So the law is clear. If you have any doubt as to the safety of passing a particular bicyclist, you MUST WAIT and be SURE it is safe before passing.

  15. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    I didn’t mean to come down so hard on Dennis. We have all been raised in the motorist frame of the roadway. It is very hard to divorce yourself from the dominant culture, because it constantly shows you images of it’s alleged righteousness and goodness.

  16. rodney
    rodney says:

    Mighk – Don’t be so hard on yourself about Dennis. Since he has joined the blog here, the vast majority of his posts have been towards the “bikes don’t belong on the road” mentality.

    Perhaps he is trying to use reverse psychology to make us believe we are to remain second or third class citizens and not ride our bikes on the roads or anywhere!

    I don’t know of his cycling/commuting/vehicular cycling experience, but his posts seem to me that he has nil to almost very little success or confidence in doing so.

    I resign myself to think that he will ever “see the light” and have an open mind and escape his car-centric mentality. Some folks just aren’t cut out for how we ride and I believe that Dennis may be of that group.

    Best wishes to you Dennis, and Happy Cycling!

  17. ChipSeal
    ChipSeal says:

    2whls3spds said:
    “Ride like that in NC on rural roads and you quite often will be run over.”

    “Quite often”? Please!

    I do a lot of cycling on rural roads in Texas. All our lanes are narrow, and the posted speed limits are high. (55 MPH or more posted)

    I can be found grinding up some hills at 8 MPH. (OK, that is an exaggeration. My speedometer has often told me I am going 6 MPH on a particular hill.) I continue to hold my centered lane position, and I have lived to post it on the internet!

    Look, I am too much of a coward to tolerate cars zipping by at my elbow. I take the lane to remove that kind of scary situation. I would rather annoy a motorist (Is that a mortal sin?) than invite him to squeeze past me in my lane on a blind hill going 40 miles an hour faster than I am.

    It’s funny, both you and I considering the same situation: You think someone would be nuts to take the lane and he must stay as far to the right as he can to be safe. I think the worst place to be is off to the side and the only safe place would in the lane!

    My conclusion is based partially on my experiences of doing both styles of riding on narrow roads. Is yours?

  18. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Look I know I’m getting really beat-up here and maybe my thinking is car-centric, but when you’re a car on a 4-lane highway, you’re not legally allowed to make an exit or a right turn from the far left lane in front of other cars. Then why are cars permitted to obstruct a bicyclist path who is moving in the same direction when that car “takes the lane from the cyclist” and assertively makes a right turn in front of the bicyclist? Is it not true that the sheer difference in mass between the car and the cyclist poses a much much greater risk to the cyclist?

  19. Keri
    Keri says:

    Motorists slow and wait behind me when they need to make a right turn. They don’t pass and then turn in front of me.

    I wonder why…

    Hmmm, I bet if I read the content on this website, I’d know!

  20. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Does this apply to Ninja bike drivers too?

    Mighk wrote: The “slightest mistake” concern has some validity, but here’s what FS 316.130 says:

    “Notwithstanding other provisions of this chapter (i.e., all of Chapter 316 which governs how vehicles and pedestrians are to behave), every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian or any person propelling a human-powered vehicle and give warning when necessary and exercise proper precaution upon observing any child or any obviously confused or incapacitated person.”

    So as a motorist YOU are responsible for avoiding a crash with that bicyclist of questionable skill. (BTW, this “due care clause” is from the Uniform Vehicle Code, so it is found in most if not all state codes, and has been in there for many decades.)

    So the law is clear. If you have any doubt as to the safety of passing a particular bicyclist, you MUST WAIT and be SURE it is safe before passing.

  21. andrewp
    andrewp says:

    JohnB said: “But I also still wonder about speed. In my experience, many urban riders with short commutes who are not club riders just aren’t interested in pushing themselves. I don’t want to say that you can only ride vehicularly if you go fast, but I also can’t deny that more closely matching the speed of the traffic around you does help. I admit I still haven’t figured out where to draw the line.

    What would you say to the guy in the upper photo, assuming he can at least ride a straight line and get some confidence, if he nonetheless says “I’m riding a comfort bike, not a road bike, I average about 12 MPH, and I don’t *want* to go any faster. I just don’t think car drivers are going to put up with a guy on a comfort bike going 12 MPH in the middle of the lane.”? I suspect this is what a lot of such people are thinking, even if they don’t say it, when confronted with the concept of vehicular cycling. ”

    These are excellent points worthy of more discussion.

    Keri and others have pointed out and demonstrated that speed of the cyclist matters less when dealing with multi-lane roads. Giving motorists time to see the cyclist and then move over into the next lane and pass causes little stress on either motorist or cyclist. Speed of the cyclist is really not the issue. It is counter-intuitive to feel safer going 2 or 3 times slower than motorist speed on a multi-lane road, but I think it is true. This is something that will not come natural to you. Something you will have to intellectualize, see others do, and then try on your own.

    Where problems with cyclist speed and motorists comes into play are with 2 lane roads that have higher speeds — one example given earlier was rural 2-lane roads. I have a commute on a “cut-through” suburban 2-lane, narrow road (double yellow the entire length). Posted speed is 35 (traffic actually goes much faster), with heavy volume. Here, cycling at 12mph would certainly cause traffic backups and more likely a few honks (or worse). But …. cycling at 20mph would still generate backups and honks. The only advantage at 20 is that you can get off this road sooner! But the less-experienced cyclists would just end up not riding on this road at all, and I can’t blame them.

    We often talk about rights and civility here …. the question that JohnB is posing is that while we as cyclists may have the RIGHT to travel down ANY road at 12mph, should we ALWAYS exercise that right? What are the times when we shouldn’t?

    These are good questions ….

  22. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    You know what was really neat Keri were those paths that you take and you showed us on that map?

    What’s really neat is that riding in residential areas there is very undetectable traffic and you can blow through STOP signs without getting caught.

  23. Keri
    Keri says:

    Yeah, Dennis, I love the connector paths! They are my favorite kind of infrastructure.

    BTW, I do not blow stop signs, even when no one is around to see it.

  24. Keri
    Keri says:

    says Andrew: “Here, cycling at 12mph would certainly cause traffic backups and more likely a few honks (or worse). But …. cycling at 20mph would still generate backups and honks. The only advantage at 20 is that you can get off this road sooner!”

    Exactly, the speed difference is not the issue. It’s the volume of traffic in both directions that prevents motorists from being able to pass. When a road is at capacity like that, it sucks to ride on it, no matter how fast you are able to ride.

    Andrew speaks of Hall Road in Goldenrod. And it’s a good example of a road that could use improvements to accommodate cyclists:

    It is at or near capacity for much of the day because it connects a 4-lane artery with a 6-lane artery

    traffic speeds are high and drivers are impatient because it is a cut-through

    There are no nearby alternatives to go in that direction

    It actually could serve as a connection between Cady Way Trail and Blanchard Trail

    It does not have a lot of intersections, so a wide lane, bike lane or bike-able shoulder would be a viable solution there.

  25. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Whether I’m driving a car or riding a bike (or driving on I-4), I typically time my routes so that I get to my destination with a little time to spare.

    The problem is obstructions, take I-4 for instance (or STOP signs). When a bicycle is blocking the path of a car who is late for an appointment, work or business meeting then the car has to make some unfortunate decisions.

  26. Keri
    Keri says:

    Another note about 2-lane roads. A slow or stationary object is EASIER to pass than a fast one because it requires a shorter gap in oncoming traffic. As long as the motorist plans ahead and adjusts his approach such that he does not have to slow completely before reaching the object.

  27. andrewp
    andrewp says:

    Dennis, now you are talking about road rage. Frustration over delays are a fact of life. Taking out those frustrations on someone (cyclist or motorist) is rude, uncivil and possibly illegal.

  28. Keri
    Keri says:

    The problem is obstructions, take I-4 for instance (or STOP signs). When a bicycle is blocking the path of a car who is late for an appointment, work or business meeting then the car has to make some unfortunate decisions.

    There you go again anthropomorphizing bikes and cars. People who do that forget that both are driven by humans who are responsible for the decisions they make.

    What is it OK for a person to do because he’s in a hurry? Run over another person? Harass another person? Punish other people for his poor time-management?

    You know what slows motorists every day? Other motorists. Bicycle drivers take a few seconds, at most, to get around. Motorists spend hours stuck in traffic jams caused by other motorists.

  29. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    “What would you say to the guy in the upper photo… if he nonetheless says… “I just don’t think car drivers are going to put up with a guy on a comfort bike going 12 MPH in the middle of the lane.””

    I’d tell him I’ve been doing it during rush hour for more than 5 years on a street with a 35 mph posted speed.

  30. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    Dennis wrote:
    “When a bicycle is blocking the path of a car who is late for an appointment, work or business meeting then the car has to make some unfortunate decisions.”

    OK, maybe I didn’t come down hard ENOUGH…

    First: a moving bicyclist is not “blocking” a motorist, just a transit bus stopped to pick up passengers is not. Either is impeding the motorist, but doing so legally.

    Being late for an appointment is the motorist’s problem. Nobody has the right to make their problem into somebody else’s.

    Foreseeing where Dennis would go next, yes, impeding a long string of cars for a significant period of time is also making one’s problem into somebody else’s. But that is an exceptionally rare circumstance; one for which we VC proponents routinely say, “Pull over and let them by, then get back out there and take the lane again.”

    But in reality, the delay bicyclists generally pose to motorists is so minimal as to be inconsequential. The normal variation in traffic congestion has far greater impact on trip time than the occasional cyclist.

  31. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    But Mighk the occasional cyclist is soon turning into a critical mass of cyclists because of the proliferation of shared-use paths, health reasons, rising energy prices and the encroaching green movement.

  32. Northern Visitor
    Northern Visitor says:

    “When a bicycle is blocking the path of a car who is late for an appointment, work or business meeting then the car has to make some unfortunate decisions.”

    To paraphrase a famous saying, “if that person in a hurry was so important, the city would have given him a car with lights and sirens.”

    I like to take statements such as this and substitute “a small child who ran out into the road” for “bicycle”:

    “When a a small child who ran out into the road is blocking the path of a car who is late for an appointment, work or business meeting then the car has to make some unfortunate decisions.”

    As Keri says, we are talking about *people* here. Your prime directive and responsibility when you get behind the wheel of several thousands pounds of fast-moving steel is to *not injure anybody*. Getting to where you are going on time is secondary.

  33. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Don’t lecture me about the police when the police were responsible for robbing me at gunpoint at the RIU Hotel where I was working and then covering up the crime.

  34. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Oh Northern Visitor, what was that about: “As Keri says, we are talking about *people* here. Your prime directive and responsibility when you get behind the wheel of several thousands pounds of fast-moving steel is to *not injure anybody*. Getting to where you are going on time is secondary.”?

  35. Northern Visitor
    Northern Visitor says:

    What part didn’t you understand? I was referring to this quote, which I included at the top of that post:

    “When a bicycle is blocking the path of a car who is late for an appointment, work or business meeting then the car has to make some unfortunate decisions.”

    When making decisions while driving, being late for something should not be the focus. Keeping everyone safe should be the focus.

  36. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Look Northern Visitor I doubt you really care about children (or anybody or anything else) you just whip out the children argument to impress people or quash their arguments/ideas/opinions.

  37. Northern Visitor
    Northern Visitor says:

    I don’t see why you would think that Dennis. I certainly and sincerely don’t want to see anyone get hurt, including children. I also don’t consider it a very “impressive” argument, I was just trying to illustrate a point.

    I think most people driving a car, even if they were late for an important business meeting, would instinctively hit the breaks and do whatever was necessary to avoid an accident.

    Yet, when faced with a bike ahead of them, all of the sudden it is “a hard decision” between acting safely and taking a risk so they can be on time. Why? In both cases, we are talking about a human life – it just so happens that one of the humans happens to be on a bike.

  38. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    “But Mighk the occasional cyclist is soon turning into a critical mass of cyclists because of the proliferation of shared-use paths, health reasons, rising energy prices and the encroaching green movement.”

    And the problem with this is what? Since bicyclists take up less roadway space, and since bicyclists on shared use paths take up NO roadway space, and since many bicyclists prefer to travel on local streets instead of collector and arterial streets, congestion overall will be reduced, and the remaining motorists will actually get to their destinations sooner. The impeding motorist “problem” is only on streets with narrow lanes and high motorist volumes.

    As an example: out of the 1,634 miles of roads in our metro area study network, only 255 miles are 2-lane roads with lanes less than 14 feet wide and traffic volumes of 10,000 cars per day or greater. Those are the roads where a motorist would have a tough time passing if a cyclist was taking the lane. Some of these roads are in outlying areas where you wouldn’t expect much cycling traffic except on weekends; some are already congested due solely to motor vehicle traffic, and will some day be widened to four lanes.

    If more people start taking the bus due to “rising energy prices and the encroaching green movement,” there will eventually be more buses stopping more frequently. That will temporarily impede motorists too.

    Oh, the horror, the horror…

    Y’know, all you’re saying Dennis is a roundabout, semi-polite stand-in for “if you know what’s good for you you’ll stay the hell out of the way you second-class fools.”

  39. ChipSeal
    ChipSeal says:

    Dennis said:
    “We’re done. Reread this post and blog a bunch of times until you see the light.”

    It would seem to me, Dennis, that there is more hostility than light. You seem to resent that cyclists may lawfully impede the pace of your travels on public roads. You also seem to be casting about for ways to make cyclists responsible for the evil behavior of motorists. (Operating a motor vehicle without due care and in a safe manner is evil.)

    Dennis also said:
    “My argument is that “assertive riding” or taking the lane is not the end-all and be-all of bicycle driving. It is a skill and practice to be used when necessary and practicable.

    But, in some instances it’s better to be riding on the side of the road in a bicycle lane, if available, when you’re going 15 MPH and a car rushes up on your rear from 40 to 65 mph (and the driver is possibly distracted).”

    In this, Dennis, we are in agreement. I doubt anyone would take the lane when it was unnecessary or not practicable.

    I seek out roads that require taking the lane, however, because they are safer than roads that have bike lanes or are so wide that one can share them side by side with motorists.

    That is because, when I’m going 15 MPH and a motorist rushes up on me at 40 to 65 mph (and the driver is possibly distracted), I want to be in the lane in front of them so that he has to deal with me, not dismiss me because I am “out of the way”.

    Another point of agreement between us, Dennis, is wanting to see scofflaw cycling behavior actively discouraged by law enforcement. I think that ninja and salmon cycling, and sine bicyclist’s disrespect for other traffic laws is evil too. A focus on ticketing such behavior would make the public roads safer for motorists just as much as cyclists.

    Perhaps if you find cyclist’s legal behavior so annoying, you could find a different route to your destination. Might I suggest an inter-state freeway?

  40. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    In order to get some informal measure of how effective vehicular cycling is as a way to avoid motorist conflicts, I wonder if the VC practitioners on this list might provide some estimate of how many miles they have biked as vehicular cyclists, and how many times they’ve been injured by motorists.

    I’ll start off: approximately 50,000 miles as a true VC; zero injuries.

  41. Keri
    Keri says:

    Hmmm, I don’t keep good track of my miles, but maybe something like 4,000/year. I’ve been consciously controlling my environment in a VC way for 2 years. I have not been injured or even had a close call in that time.

    I used to have close calls all the time.

    I’ve only been hit by a car once. I was in a bike lane.

  42. fred_dot_u
    fred_dot_u says:

    as a late comer to escaping the gutter, I’m at slightly more than five thousand miles with zero crashes. Two years previously, a motor vehicle operator (apparently) intentionally struck me in my first velomobile, (apparently) to keep me from passing him queued up at a red traffic light.

  43. Mighk
    Mighk says:

    Dennis asked if the FS 316.130 due care clause applied with “Ninja cyclists” too.

    I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand here. You can’t be expected to avoid someone you can’t see, or can’t see in time to do something about it. The due care clause just says that if you are able to avoid the crash, you must try, within reason, to do so, no matter what the pedestrian or cyclist is doing.

    And, while we’re at it, FS 316.083 states: “The driver of a vehicle overtaking a bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle must pass the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle at a safe distance of not less than 3 feet between the vehicle and the bicycle or other nonmotorized vehicle.”

    (Obviously you can’t be expected to give 3 feet to a cyclist you can’t see, but that only applies to the most invisible ninjas on the darkest of roads.)

    So if the lane is 12 feet or less, even a mid-sized car driver will have to cross the lane stripe and encroach on the next lane in order give a gutter-hugging cyclist 3 feet.

  44. Brian in So Cal
    Brian in So Cal says:

    I’d say about 4000 mi/yr for the last 10 yr, no crashes with automobiles (although I had a couple of boneheaded solo falls – for example, the road was slick after a light June rain, took the corner too hard and went down).

  45. Bob in NorCal
    Bob in NorCal says:

    I have ridden 14,445 miles on my primary road bike in the 3 years since I last replaced its computer’s battery. Don’t know how many miles on my mountain bike or my tandem bike or various others in the family fleet or miscellaneous others. This has been my normal pace of accumulating miles, my entire life (I’m 47).

    I discovered and read read Effective Cycling in 1996, and realized I had been riding “vehicularly” for a long time before that. My conscious awareness has grown since then in matters like the legal framework around the necessity of active lane space management.

    I have had no wrecks on the street other than a solo fall on wet railroad tracks, two winters ago. Nothing I would even classify as a near miss with other traffic, requiring a quick-stop or quick-turn maneuver.

  46. Frank Krygowski
    Frank Krygowski says:

    I’ve been a Vehicular Cyclist for at least 25 years, at least 50,000 miles, including much commuting, plus riding in cities across America and in Europe. I’ve never had a car-bike accident.

    In fact, I’ve had only two moving on-road falls since reaching adulthood 40+ years ago: one a 3 mph slip on a gravel-covered 20% grade, the other the sudden, total fatigue failure of our custom tandem’s front fork at 10 mph. (It’s hard to stay upright without a front wheel!) Only minor injuries in either case.

    Bicycling is NOT very dangerous. It does us no good to pretend it is.

  47. danc
    danc says:

    My primary ride, Tour-De-Work, ~3500 miles per year, last four years, NADA touch. About 7 of 10 miles are only narrow, 20-24ft two lanes country roads with zip to 2 foot shoulders. No problem controlling or sharing the lane, posted speed limit is 55. “Controlling the lane” works the same on country lanes or city streets.

  48. Wayne Pein
    Wayne Pein says:

    Depends on what is considered VC. The typical definition of VC is merely operating as a lawful driver. But classic VC is weak on well managing your lane space. At the least, it doesn’t emphasize the positive benefits of assertive lane position. I’ve been doing the former for 23 years and the later for all of it to some extent. When descending at high speed, which is alot around here (Chapel Hill, NC), I’ve always used the full lane, but in the last, say 6-7? years I’ve refined my knowledge of lane use to include all roads. Before that, I’d ride maybe 2 feet from the edge of the lane. But it kept creeping up and now it’s never less than 4-5 feet. About 6000 miles/year, half of that with a group though. No motor vehicle collisions.

  49. fred_dot_u
    fred_dot_u says:

    Wayne, your two feet from the edge of the road is two feet farther away than many of the “people on bikes” ride in this part of Florida. Last year, a mechanic at a local bike shop was struck by a mirror on her way to work. The two-lane road on which she rides might be as wide as eight feet in each direction. Her solution is to no longer ride to work. I’ve not seen her in the shop but once since the crash and I suspect that she has decided to stop working there. An unnecessary loss.

  50. MikeOnBike
    MikeOnBike says:

    About 15,000 miles since I read Effective Cycling, maybe 10,000 since taking LAB Road I, though I would say I was quasi-VC before that. No collisions with anything. No solo crashes. Not much in the way of close calls (e.g. hooks and crosses).

    Probably the biggest hazard is the occasional “drive-by shouting” from an uninformed (sometimes uniformed) motorist. My most serious injury is hurt feelings.

  51. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Within the past 8 days I have nearly had or witnessed 4 accidents due to obstructions in the road. After midnight this evening I was at E. Colonial & Bumby and I had to stop my car at the inersection, put on the hazards and remove significant amount of car parts (it had to have been a recent car accident) from the intersection. Last night I almost ran over a guy leaving W.P. Hospital and walking south on the soutbound lane of Lakemont. Thank God I was driving well under the speed limit and more importantly, whoever required reflectors to be sneakers is the messiah. If I had hit him I’m sure a court of law would have found it was not my fault ut I would have gotten blood all over my car (but I probably would not have killed him). This morning around 11:30am and as I was driving north on Lakemont I had to stop my car, put on the blinkers and remove a very large branch from the middle of the lane of oncoming (southbound) traffic. Finally, about a week ago I had to stop my car and get a large branch and push a 30 lb turtle from the middle of Lakemont (near the dog park) off of the middle of Lakemont to the side of the road. Have you cyclists had to deal with road obstructions?

  52. John S. Allen
    John S. Allen says:

    I read Forester’s Effective Cycling and learned vehicular cycling in 1977. Before then: broken rib when riding a Columbia 3-speed with out-of-round rims down a steep hill and couldn’t hold speed down — slipped in sand at outside of curve; broke collarbone once in attempting to mount onto pavement from gravel shoulder not realizing that my wheels had sunk into the gravel — diversion fall. Broke collarbone again when sideswiped by drunk driver on rural highway which was wide enough for him to overtake me, but he brushed me with his right rear-view mirror — “never saw me.” Total mileage to that time about 20,000.

    Since reading Effective Cycling: 3 single-bike crashes resulting in injury. Fell and broke pelvis attempting to slalom and discourage wrong-way rider in Harvard Square, Cambridge, can’t figure why I lost control, probalby slipped on something (but just a crack in the pelvis, back on bike in 3 weeks); got stick caught in spokes, pitchover crash, lacerations and mild concussion; mild concussion again when I didn’t see a pothole, riding behind another cyclist (latter two crashes described in deatil on my Web site bikexprt.com). Mileage averaging 2500/year, more or less, so 75000 miles since 1977.

    I’ve had more crashes than some others but my ratio of car-bike to other crashes bears out what national statistics show.

  53. Northern Visitor
    Northern Visitor says:

    Well I never had to move a turtle, but I have had to go around wild turkeys and deer.

    Part of my route is past the city recycling center, which also handles yard waste. It’s not uncommon for a big branch of bunch of tied brush to be somewhere on that road, having fallen off an overloaded pickup truck.

  54. Dennis
    Dennis says:

    Yeah Northern Visitor, I try to process my trash right away now and put it behind me so that if it ever gets recycled in the future I know it’s for the good of someone else.

    Has anyone seen that Pixar movie Wally (talk about anthropomorhizing)?

  55. Steve A
    Steve A says:

    Never had a crash involving a car – well, not while I was on a bike.

    Rode about 5K miles last year. One fall – while turning onto a MUP in a light rain. I had a flat last year – does that count?

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