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	<title>Comments on: Let Him Ride</title>
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	<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/</link>
	<description>Encouragement, Education &#38; Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World</description>
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		<title>By: Is it time for a cyclists’ legal defense fund? &#171; BikingInLA</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6742</link>
		<dc:creator>Is it time for a cyclists’ legal defense fund? &#171; BikingInLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6742</guid>
		<description>[...] Then there’s the case of a Massachusetts LAB-certified cycling instructor stopped repeatedly and arrested for the crime of riding in the roadway on a state highway, rather than on the shoulder. Or the Texas rider who has been cited, arrested and convicted for impeding traffic even though drivers could easily pass using the other lane, and now faces trial in another jurisdiction for the crime of riding on the roadway. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Then there’s the case of a Massachusetts LAB-certified cycling instructor stopped repeatedly and arrested for the crime of riding in the roadway on a state highway, rather than on the shoulder. Or the Texas rider who has been cited, arrested and convicted for impeding traffic even though drivers could easily pass using the other lane, and now faces trial in another jurisdiction for the crime of riding on the roadway. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Gutierrez</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6733</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Gutierrez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6733</guid>
		<description>Drivers routinely make lane changes to pass slower drivers in the right hand lane; such behavior is the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, period.  It happens everywhere, and no one thinks anything of it unless the slower driver is a bicyclist.  Then the bicyclist is seen as an impediment because of motorist and cyclist prejudice.

Fortunately in most (43) US states the &quot;impeding traffic law&quot; only applies to motorists, not the drivers of non-motorized vehicles, and two states have no such law (HI and MA).  Only 5 states, CA, MI, NH, OH and TX have impeding traffic laws that are badly written to improperly criminalize bicyclists.

A motorist that is &quot;impeding traffic&quot; can easily press the accelerator to increase their speed to a level that would be considered normal and reasonable for a motor vehicle driver, whereas a bicyclist cannot, and this critical distinction is why such laws should not and do not apply to bicyclists in most US states.

Reed&#039;s case is but a symptom of improper laws in 5 US states.  The Selz defense (not Trotwood, which was prosecuting Selz) may or may work in Texas, but it should not be seen as a generally applicable precedent, rather it is a stop-gap measure until we can fix the bad laws in CA, MI, NH, OH and TX.

Also note that the throughput arguments are specious because traffic lights are the main cause of delay, not slower drivers.  Even if all the traffic was moving at Reed&#039;s speed, they would still have to spend a substantial amount of time queuing at traffic lights, and these wait times are an even bigger hit to their trip times compared to when they are moving more slowly.  These &quot;speed of continuous flow/throughput&quot; arguments only apply to grade separated freeways (with not at grade crossings or controls) where the traffic volumes are low enough that stop-and-go traffic doesn&#039;t develop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drivers routinely make lane changes to pass slower drivers in the right hand lane; such behavior is the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, period.  It happens everywhere, and no one thinks anything of it unless the slower driver is a bicyclist.  Then the bicyclist is seen as an impediment because of motorist and cyclist prejudice.</p>
<p>Fortunately in most (43) US states the &#8220;impeding traffic law&#8221; only applies to motorists, not the drivers of non-motorized vehicles, and two states have no such law (HI and MA).  Only 5 states, CA, MI, NH, OH and TX have impeding traffic laws that are badly written to improperly criminalize bicyclists.</p>
<p>A motorist that is &#8220;impeding traffic&#8221; can easily press the accelerator to increase their speed to a level that would be considered normal and reasonable for a motor vehicle driver, whereas a bicyclist cannot, and this critical distinction is why such laws should not and do not apply to bicyclists in most US states.</p>
<p>Reed&#8217;s case is but a symptom of improper laws in 5 US states.  The Selz defense (not Trotwood, which was prosecuting Selz) may or may work in Texas, but it should not be seen as a generally applicable precedent, rather it is a stop-gap measure until we can fix the bad laws in CA, MI, NH, OH and TX.</p>
<p>Also note that the throughput arguments are specious because traffic lights are the main cause of delay, not slower drivers.  Even if all the traffic was moving at Reed&#8217;s speed, they would still have to spend a substantial amount of time queuing at traffic lights, and these wait times are an even bigger hit to their trip times compared to when they are moving more slowly.  These &#8220;speed of continuous flow/throughput&#8221; arguments only apply to grade separated freeways (with not at grade crossings or controls) where the traffic volumes are low enough that stop-and-go traffic doesn&#8217;t develop.</p>
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		<title>By: Serge Issakov</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6576</link>
		<dc:creator>Serge Issakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6576</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Don’t forget that throughput has become the most important thing as far as most motorists are concerned. Another way to say slow down throughput is to say that something impedes it.&lt;/i&gt;

Right.  The fundamental point is this.  If you&#039;re driving a Buick at 15 mph in a travel lane with a 35 mph max speed limit and 35-45 mph traffic, you&#039;re just as likely to get a ticket for impeding traffic as you are for speeding if going 55 mph there, even if there are other lanes available for passing.  This is how &quot;impeding&quot; is interpreted in our society, and it has nothing to do with an anti-bike bias.

It&#039;s only fair to apply the same interpretation/meaning of &quot;impeding&quot; to bicyclists in the same situation.  It&#039;s foolish to try to argue that 15 mph in a 35+ mph traffic is not impeding.

The only defense is the one held up by &lt;i&gt;Trotwood v. Selz&lt;/i&gt;:  one cannot be legally faulted for going too slow if he or she is going as fast as is safely and reasonably possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Don’t forget that throughput has become the most important thing as far as most motorists are concerned. Another way to say slow down throughput is to say that something impedes it.</i></p>
<p>Right.  The fundamental point is this.  If you&#8217;re driving a Buick at 15 mph in a travel lane with a 35 mph max speed limit and 35-45 mph traffic, you&#8217;re just as likely to get a ticket for impeding traffic as you are for speeding if going 55 mph there, even if there are other lanes available for passing.  This is how &#8220;impeding&#8221; is interpreted in our society, and it has nothing to do with an anti-bike bias.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only fair to apply the same interpretation/meaning of &#8220;impeding&#8221; to bicyclists in the same situation.  It&#8217;s foolish to try to argue that 15 mph in a 35+ mph traffic is not impeding.</p>
<p>The only defense is the one held up by <i>Trotwood v. Selz</i>:  one cannot be legally faulted for going too slow if he or she is going as fast as is safely and reasonably possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6572</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6572</guid>
		<description>You and Keri and lots of other people like to say &quot;All they have to do is change lanes&quot;, but in fact they don&#039;t want to change lanes if they don&#039;t have to. I started a new post about this but never finished it.

In any case, the act of changing lanes &quot;mixes things up&quot; and slows down throughput. Don&#039;t forget that throughput has become the most important thing as far as most motorists are concerned. Another way to say slow down throughput is to say that something impedes it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You and Keri and lots of other people like to say &#8220;All they have to do is change lanes&#8221;, but in fact they don&#8217;t want to change lanes if they don&#8217;t have to. I started a new post about this but never finished it.</p>
<p>In any case, the act of changing lanes &#8220;mixes things up&#8221; and slows down throughput. Don&#8217;t forget that throughput has become the most important thing as far as most motorists are concerned. Another way to say slow down throughput is to say that something impedes it.</p>
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		<title>By: ToddBS</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6570</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddBS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6570</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t think that’s quite it. It has nothing to do with anyone’s “wish” – it has to do with their actual “normal” speed at that time.&lt;/i&gt;

Whatever speed they are traveling at - their &quot;normal&quot; speed - is of their own choosing.  A speed limit is just that: a &lt;i&gt;limit&lt;/i&gt;.  It carries no mandate.  One person&#039;s normal speed is not necessarily another&#039;s,  which would leave us open to enforcing the law based on each individual plaintiff&#039;s whim if that were in fact the standard. In the absence of a posted minimum speed I can&#039;t see how this is enforceable.

Now, the statue says: &quot;An operator may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law&quot;.  How is changing lanes to avoid a slower moving vehicle not a &quot;normal and reasonable movement&quot;?  Indeed, I would say it is &lt;i&gt;expected&lt;/i&gt; of any licensed vehicle operator.  Is it not the reason the second lane is there at all?  If anyone is taking liberties with the interpretation of the statute I would suggest it is the Ennis PD*.

*disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t think that’s quite it. It has nothing to do with anyone’s “wish” – it has to do with their actual “normal” speed at that time.</i></p>
<p>Whatever speed they are traveling at &#8211; their &#8220;normal&#8221; speed &#8211; is of their own choosing.  A speed limit is just that: a <i>limit</i>.  It carries no mandate.  One person&#8217;s normal speed is not necessarily another&#8217;s,  which would leave us open to enforcing the law based on each individual plaintiff&#8217;s whim if that were in fact the standard. In the absence of a posted minimum speed I can&#8217;t see how this is enforceable.</p>
<p>Now, the statue says: &#8220;An operator may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law&#8221;.  How is changing lanes to avoid a slower moving vehicle not a &#8220;normal and reasonable movement&#8221;?  Indeed, I would say it is <i>expected</i> of any licensed vehicle operator.  Is it not the reason the second lane is there at all?  If anyone is taking liberties with the interpretation of the statute I would suggest it is the Ennis PD*.</p>
<p>*disclaimer: I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV.</p>
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		<title>By: Serge Issakov</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6569</link>
		<dc:creator>Serge Issakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6569</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Impede in the legal sense apparently means not being able to drive exactly the speed you wish to in the lane you wish to even though other avenues of passage exist. &lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think that&#039;s quite it.  It has nothing to do with anyone&#039;s &quot;wish&quot; - it has to do with their actual &quot;normal&quot; speed at that time.  The general view seems to be that if their ability to continue traveling at that speed is hindered to some significant degree, then it&#039;s &quot;impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic&quot;.  

I don&#039;t understand why so many bicyclists want to deny that traveling much slower than others has a significant hindering or impeding effect on those others.  If they want to consider themselves &quot;hindered&quot; or &quot;impeded&quot; by that, so what?   &lt;b&gt;That&#039;s not even an anti-bike issue, because relatively slow travel that is significantly slower than others  is considered by most to be impeding regardless of the mode of conveyance.&lt;/b&gt;

The focus should not be on whether slow travel hinders or impedes others, but whether such hindering or impeding is unlawful when the &quot;impeder&quot; cannot go any faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Impede in the legal sense apparently means not being able to drive exactly the speed you wish to in the lane you wish to even though other avenues of passage exist. </i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s quite it.  It has nothing to do with anyone&#8217;s &#8220;wish&#8221; &#8211; it has to do with their actual &#8220;normal&#8221; speed at that time.  The general view seems to be that if their ability to continue traveling at that speed is hindered to some significant degree, then it&#8217;s &#8220;impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why so many bicyclists want to deny that traveling much slower than others has a significant hindering or impeding effect on those others.  If they want to consider themselves &#8220;hindered&#8221; or &#8220;impeded&#8221; by that, so what?   <b>That&#8217;s not even an anti-bike issue, because relatively slow travel that is significantly slower than others  is considered by most to be impeding regardless of the mode of conveyance.</b></p>
<p>The focus should not be on whether slow travel hinders or impedes others, but whether such hindering or impeding is unlawful when the &#8220;impeder&#8221; cannot go any faster.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6568</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6568</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve been lucky twice in traffic stops, but only because the wording specifies motor vehicle operators.&quot;

Lucky for you we reformed our courts back in 1976, something that Texas still hasn&#039;t done. Those judges in Texas really have to run for office the way that some of our judges did. We &quot;sort of&quot; have elections now, but not really.

We had this crazy-quilt patchwork prior to the Constitutional amendments passed in &#039;68 which didn&#039;t take effect right away, and such abusive traffic courts, that you would have like been found guilt of SOMETHING for driving that crazy thing around.

Now, someone has to be an attorney to be a judge, but not back then and still not in many states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve been lucky twice in traffic stops, but only because the wording specifies motor vehicle operators.&#8221;</p>
<p>Lucky for you we reformed our courts back in 1976, something that Texas still hasn&#8217;t done. Those judges in Texas really have to run for office the way that some of our judges did. We &#8220;sort of&#8221; have elections now, but not really.</p>
<p>We had this crazy-quilt patchwork prior to the Constitutional amendments passed in &#8217;68 which didn&#8217;t take effect right away, and such abusive traffic courts, that you would have like been found guilt of SOMETHING for driving that crazy thing around.</p>
<p>Now, someone has to be an attorney to be a judge, but not back then and still not in many states.</p>
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		<title>By: Jayeson</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6567</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayeson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6567</guid>
		<description>http://www.ohiobike.org/selz/Selz_Rt2Road.htm

ChipSeal, I am on your side, I sent you some money and wish you the best of luck so please don&#039;t be too offended: I am no lawyer and this is not legal advice but it is clear to me from reading your posts that you need to hand over the reigns to a lawyer and hopefully a good one. 

It sounds like Selz was in a very similar situation to you, had a sharp lawyer and only just won his appeal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.ohiobike.org/selz/Selz_Rt2Road.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ohiobike.org/selz/Selz_Rt2Road.htm</a></p>
<p>ChipSeal, I am on your side, I sent you some money and wish you the best of luck so please don&#8217;t be too offended: I am no lawyer and this is not legal advice but it is clear to me from reading your posts that you need to hand over the reigns to a lawyer and hopefully a good one. </p>
<p>It sounds like Selz was in a very similar situation to you, had a sharp lawyer and only just won his appeal.</p>
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		<title>By: ToddBS</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6565</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddBS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6565</guid>
		<description>Well, impede in the literal sense means to hinder.  Impede in the legal sense apparently means not being able to drive exactly the speed you wish to in the lane you wish to even though other avenues of passage exist. Overall, you were not hindered in your driving.  You simply chose to not take advantage of the available options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, impede in the literal sense means to hinder.  Impede in the legal sense apparently means not being able to drive exactly the speed you wish to in the lane you wish to even though other avenues of passage exist. Overall, you were not hindered in your driving.  You simply chose to not take advantage of the available options.</p>
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		<title>By: Serge Issakov</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2010/03/08/let-him-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-6564</link>
		<dc:creator>Serge Issakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=6940#comment-6564</guid>
		<description>Remember the wording of the law:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;...may not drive so slowly as to &lt;b&gt;impede&lt;/b&gt; the normal and reasonable  movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for  safe operation or in compliance with law.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

What do you think is the difference between the dictionary and that legal use of of &quot;impede&quot;?   I see no difference.

I mean, if you&#039;re suggesting that &quot;impede&quot; in the legal sense means &quot;in violation of the impeding law&quot;, then the use of &quot;impede&quot; in the impeding law itself is not used in the legal sense!

That is, say someone is driving down the highway and slows down to avoid some hazard, a slowing that impedes others.  Is that impeding, or not?  Legally, it is impeding, however, since it&#039;s being done &quot;for safe operation&quot;, it&#039;s not a violation of the impeding law.

Perhaps an even better example is stopping for a red light.  Clearly that impedes those behind you, but, of course it&#039;s not a violation of the law because that impeding is being done in order to  be &quot;in compliance of the law&quot;.  But the point here is it&#039;s still impeding, in both the normal and legal sense, it just happens to be impeding that is lawful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember the wording of the law:  <i>&#8220;&#8230;may not drive so slowly as to <b>impede</b> the normal and reasonable  movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for  safe operation or in compliance with law.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>What do you think is the difference between the dictionary and that legal use of of &#8220;impede&#8221;?   I see no difference.</p>
<p>I mean, if you&#8217;re suggesting that &#8220;impede&#8221; in the legal sense means &#8220;in violation of the impeding law&#8221;, then the use of &#8220;impede&#8221; in the impeding law itself is not used in the legal sense!</p>
<p>That is, say someone is driving down the highway and slows down to avoid some hazard, a slowing that impedes others.  Is that impeding, or not?  Legally, it is impeding, however, since it&#8217;s being done &#8220;for safe operation&#8221;, it&#8217;s not a violation of the impeding law.</p>
<p>Perhaps an even better example is stopping for a red light.  Clearly that impedes those behind you, but, of course it&#8217;s not a violation of the law because that impeding is being done in order to  be &#8220;in compliance of the law&#8221;.  But the point here is it&#8217;s still impeding, in both the normal and legal sense, it just happens to be impeding that is lawful!</p>
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