Comments on: How the Dutch Kicked the Culture of Speed http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/ Encouragement, Education & Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:08:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: America’s So-Called “Love Affair” with the Automobile and the Cure « Columbusite http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7292 America’s So-Called “Love Affair” with the Automobile and the Cure « Columbusite Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:20:25 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-7292 [...] Americans love, but speed, which is aptly referred to as the “Culture of Speed” on the Commute Orlando blog. The facilitation of high-speed travel at all costs which includes all the billions spent on our [...] [...] Americans love, but speed, which is aptly referred to as the “Culture of Speed” on the Commute Orlando blog. The facilitation of high-speed travel at all costs which includes all the billions spent on our [...]

]]> By: Mighk http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5380 Mighk Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:29:52 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5380 There are sidewalks (both sides); they're set back rather far from the curb. The narrow (unfortunately I cannot say "substandard" because FDOT allows 3-foot undesignated bike lanes in the Green Book) bike lane results from splitting a 14-foot lane into 11 and 3, a practice I reeeally dislike. With a 14-foot lane the motorists shift to the left edge of the lane. With the 11/3 combo they center themselves in the 11-foot lane, so on-average they end up passing closer. You can see the street here: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=26.168741,-80.294995&spn=0.003433,0.005735&t=h&z=18 There are sidewalks (both sides); they’re set back rather far from the curb. The narrow (unfortunately I cannot say “substandard” because FDOT allows 3-foot undesignated bike lanes in the Green Book) bike lane results from splitting a 14-foot lane into 11 and 3, a practice I reeeally dislike.

With a 14-foot lane the motorists shift to the left edge of the lane. With the 11/3 combo they center themselves in the 11-foot lane, so on-average they end up passing closer.

You can see the street here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=26.168741,-80.294995&spn=0.003433,0.005735&t=h&z=18

]]> By: Laura M http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5379 Laura M Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:52:44 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5379 that's a really wide road regardless...look at that right turn only lane. Why is it there? What is its purpose? ANNNNND there's no sidewalk. All sorts of problems. I don't think it's fair to place blame on the bike/ped coordinator - ultimately, many transportation planners and FDOT contribute to these conditions, not just one individual. Paint is cheap which results in these sometimes unintended consequences. that’s a really wide road regardless…look at that right turn only lane. Why is it there? What is its purpose? ANNNNND there’s no sidewalk. All sorts of problems. I don’t think it’s fair to place blame on the bike/ped coordinator – ultimately, many transportation planners and FDOT contribute to these conditions, not just one individual. Paint is cheap which results in these sometimes unintended consequences.

]]> By: Keri http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5328 Keri Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:34:14 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5328 The bus cuts across it to go into the bus stop pull-outs, too. I've made it a mission to take photos of large vehicles in 10-11ft lanes so people can see what it looks like when narrow bike lanes are shoehorned next to narrow general traffic lanes. This practice has become all the rage with the "advocates" who insist we must put bike lanes everywhere to coddle the timid. Riding in something like that will send the timid right back onto the sidewalk. It scares the crap out of me and I have no fear of taking the lane on a 6-lane arterial with 50+mph traffic. It basically ruins the road for cycling because cyclists are then nolonger tolerated in the general traffic lanes where we would have gotten far more separation from high speed traffic. The bus cuts across it to go into the bus stop pull-outs, too.

I’ve made it a mission to take photos of large vehicles in 10-11ft lanes so people can see what it looks like when narrow bike lanes are shoehorned next to narrow general traffic lanes. This practice has become all the rage with the “advocates” who insist we must put bike lanes everywhere to coddle the timid.

Riding in something like that will send the timid right back onto the sidewalk. It scares the crap out of me and I have no fear of taking the lane on a 6-lane arterial with 50+mph traffic. It basically ruins the road for cycling because cyclists are then nolonger tolerated in the general traffic lanes where we would have gotten far more separation from high speed traffic.

]]> By: Lovely Bicycle! http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5327 Lovely Bicycle! Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:05:11 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5327 Wow. That "bike lane" sends shivers through my spine, especially with that big bus to the left of it. What fun when that bus needs to turn right. Wow. That “bike lane” sends shivers through my spine, especially with that big bus to the left of it. What fun when that bus needs to turn right.

]]> By: MikeOnBike http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5323 MikeOnBike Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:21:31 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5323 If my memory is correct, bike lane minimum widths in AASHTO (and California) are typically 5 feet (1.5m) including gutter pan, or 4 feet (1.2m) without. When there's a gutter pan, there's supposed to be 3 feet (1m) outside the gutter pan. As far as I know, there's no mechanism for enforcing these standards, at least nothing an individual cyclist can do if they see a nonstandard width. If my memory is correct, bike lane minimum widths in AASHTO (and California) are typically 5 feet (1.5m) including gutter pan, or 4 feet (1.2m) without. When there’s a gutter pan, there’s supposed to be 3 feet (1m) outside the gutter pan.

As far as I know, there’s no mechanism for enforcing these standards, at least nothing an individual cyclist can do if they see a nonstandard width.

]]> By: Eric http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5321 Eric Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:31:49 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5321 I think in the US the width is 1.2 meters, but that can be narrowed -- just like Toronto narrowed one of their lanes here: http://biketoronto.ca/topic/show/456.htm People who advocate narrower than usual lanes are putting ideology ahead of safety. It's all about politics. I think in the US the width is 1.2 meters, but that can be narrowed — just like Toronto narrowed one of their lanes here:
http://biketoronto.ca/topic/show/456.htm

People who advocate narrower than usual lanes are putting ideology ahead of safety. It’s all about politics.

]]> By: acline http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5320 acline Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:55:38 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5320 That's a bicycle lane???!!! Yikes! Was the person who designed that thing horse-whipped? Put in the public stocks? That’s a bicycle lane???!!! Yikes! Was the person who designed that thing horse-whipped? Put in the public stocks?

]]> By: Kevin Love http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5319 Kevin Love Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:40:32 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5319 The official standard for bike lanes is two metres. One metre for the human being elbow to elbow (I'm about that width myself) and 1/2 metre "swerve room" on either side. I'll see if I can find a CSA or government link. The bike lane pictured is just absurd. The official standard for bike lanes is two metres. One metre for the human being elbow to elbow (I’m about that width myself) and 1/2 metre “swerve room” on either side.

I’ll see if I can find a CSA or government link. The bike lane pictured is just absurd.

]]> By: Keri http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/how-the-dutch-kicked-the-culture-of-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-5316 Keri Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:51:08 +0000 http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5781#comment-5316 It's even scarier in person. It's an 11+3 conversion of a formerly wide curb lane. Not the work of some bike-hating DOT, but of a bike/ped coordinator. With friends like that, who needs enemies? It’s even scarier in person. It’s an 11+3 conversion of a formerly wide curb lane. Not the work of some bike-hating DOT, but of a bike/ped coordinator. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

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