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	<title>Comments on: Where do we find justice?</title>
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	<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/</link>
	<description>Encouragement, Education &#38; Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World</description>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-10949</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-10949</guid>
		<description>Well, we will see what happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we will see what happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-10947</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 01:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-10947</guid>
		<description>FYI. I was just googling this case for something else I&#039;m working on and see that the driver was indicted on 2 counts of criminally negligent homicide a year after the crash.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kens5.com/news/One-year-after-fatal-Hwy-16-bike-accident-driver-indicted-104105643.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a story&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI. I was just googling this case for something else I&#8217;m working on and see that the driver was indicted on 2 counts of criminally negligent homicide a year after the crash.<br />
<a href="http://www.kens5.com/news/One-year-after-fatal-Hwy-16-bike-accident-driver-indicted-104105643.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a story</a></p>
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		<title>By: ToddBS</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-6028</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddBS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-6028</guid>
		<description>Indeed.  If there were a comment ranking system in place I&#039;d vote-up this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed.  If there were a comment ranking system in place I&#8217;d vote-up this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-6027</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-6027</guid>
		<description>Excellent comment Khal! Thanks for sharing it here.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadrights/2010/02/01/traffic-injustice-part-ii/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a link&lt;/a&gt; to the Mionske article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent comment Khal! Thanks for sharing it here.</p>
<p><a href="http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadrights/2010/02/01/traffic-injustice-part-ii/" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a link</a> to the Mionske article.</p>
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		<title>By: Khal Spencer</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-6022</link>
		<dc:creator>Khal Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-6022</guid>
		<description>Here are my comments from Bob Mionske&#039;s essay.

Good points about rare and large vs. everyday, less lethal incidents. That’s why people worry about the highly unlikely case of an airline crash or the negligible probability of a large scale U.S. commercial nuclear power plant disaster, but ignore the fact that we metaphorically blow up a Chernobyl on our roads every year, year in and year out.

But I don’t like vulnerable user laws or hate crime laws. They suggest that some crime or accident victims are more worthy than others. I neither want to be more worthy, or more pitied than anyone else.

A person killed in his Prius by a reckless Hummer operator is just as dead as a cyclist killed by a reckless Prius owner. What we need to do instead of defining classes of victims is to raise the standards of accountability for all operators and more effectively uphold standards of due care, prosecuting those who kill and maim regardless of the identity of the victim. If you hurt someone due to your negligence, carelessness, or recklessness, you should be held accountable. Because bicyclists and pedestrians are expected to be using the roads or crossing them, “I didn’t see (fill in the blank)” is no excuse.

I fully concur with Serge and others that the other part of this discussion that we don’t hear enough about is cyclist accountability and riding expertise. There is a lot a cyclist can do to mitigate his or her risks through behavior and training. For those rare times when a cyclist is hit through no fault of his/her own, the law should be just but firm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are my comments from Bob Mionske&#8217;s essay.</p>
<p>Good points about rare and large vs. everyday, less lethal incidents. That’s why people worry about the highly unlikely case of an airline crash or the negligible probability of a large scale U.S. commercial nuclear power plant disaster, but ignore the fact that we metaphorically blow up a Chernobyl on our roads every year, year in and year out.</p>
<p>But I don’t like vulnerable user laws or hate crime laws. They suggest that some crime or accident victims are more worthy than others. I neither want to be more worthy, or more pitied than anyone else.</p>
<p>A person killed in his Prius by a reckless Hummer operator is just as dead as a cyclist killed by a reckless Prius owner. What we need to do instead of defining classes of victims is to raise the standards of accountability for all operators and more effectively uphold standards of due care, prosecuting those who kill and maim regardless of the identity of the victim. If you hurt someone due to your negligence, carelessness, or recklessness, you should be held accountable. Because bicyclists and pedestrians are expected to be using the roads or crossing them, “I didn’t see (fill in the blank)” is no excuse.</p>
<p>I fully concur with Serge and others that the other part of this discussion that we don’t hear enough about is cyclist accountability and riding expertise. There is a lot a cyclist can do to mitigate his or her risks through behavior and training. For those rare times when a cyclist is hit through no fault of his/her own, the law should be just but firm.</p>
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		<title>By: Practical Elegance and the Principles of Traffic &#124; Florida Bicycle Law</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-5076</link>
		<dc:creator>Practical Elegance and the Principles of Traffic &#124; Florida Bicycle Law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-5076</guid>
		<description>[...] clarity I have on traffic dynamics and impedance must be credited to Mighk Wilson,  Keri Caffrey and Herman May who have done most of the heavy lifting for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] clarity I have on traffic dynamics and impedance must be credited to Mighk Wilson,  Keri Caffrey and Herman May who have done most of the heavy lifting for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rodney</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-4516</link>
		<dc:creator>rodney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-4516</guid>
		<description>For clarification, my previous reply to Brian was made to be expressed in general and not directed toany one individual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For clarification, my previous reply to Brian was made to be expressed in general and not directed toany one individual.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-4515</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mr. Norman Benzing found about how we handle things here. His wife got a front row seat.

Miss Sara Bragg, a crackhead who was completely wiped out, a resident of a &quot;half-way&quot; house on Kaley Street, was turned loose with an automobile. That automobile jumped up on yhe sidewalk (in mid block) and killed Norman Benzing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Norman Benzing found about how we handle things here. His wife got a front row seat.</p>
<p>Miss Sara Bragg, a crackhead who was completely wiped out, a resident of a &#8220;half-way&#8221; house on Kaley Street, was turned loose with an automobile. That automobile jumped up on yhe sidewalk (in mid block) and killed Norman Benzing.</p>
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		<title>By: ChipSeal</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-4511</link>
		<dc:creator>ChipSeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-4511</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;So putting someone in jail just because they are incompetent at driving is something the judges don’t want to do.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

My translation: Judges are derelict in their duty to uphold the law and we tolerate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>So putting someone in jail just because they are incompetent at driving is something the judges don’t want to do.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>My translation: Judges are derelict in their duty to uphold the law and we tolerate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/10/11/where-do-we-find-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-4510</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=5157#comment-4510</guid>
		<description>Eric wrote:
&quot;Our jails are full of drug addicts...  So putting someone in jail just because they are incompetent at driving is something the judges don’t want to do.&quot;

Kevin&#039;s comment:
Canada treats drug addiction as primarily a medical problem, not a criminal issue.  Not having a &quot;war on drugs,&quot; judges in Ontario have no problem putting dangerous drivers in jail.  

I believe that this is a far more appropriate use of law enforcement and prison resources.  Not to mention a far higher success rate in treating addiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric wrote:<br />
&#8220;Our jails are full of drug addicts&#8230;  So putting someone in jail just because they are incompetent at driving is something the judges don’t want to do.&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s comment:<br />
Canada treats drug addiction as primarily a medical problem, not a criminal issue.  Not having a &#8220;war on drugs,&#8221; judges in Ontario have no problem putting dangerous drivers in jail.  </p>
<p>I believe that this is a far more appropriate use of law enforcement and prison resources.  Not to mention a far higher success rate in treating addiction.</p>
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