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	<title>Comments on: 10% Huh? Don&#8217;t Fall For It!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/</link>
	<description>Encouragement, Education &#38; Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World</description>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3957</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3957</guid>
		<description>The 90% number was suspicious to me too, but not because I thought is was an exaggeration. If anything, I think cars are responsible for far more than that.

If I rode the way car drivers do (not paying attention to anything), I would probably get hit every day. It&#039;s only because I&#039;m an extremely defensive cyclist who assumes that every car is going to hit me that I&#039;ve been able to avoid ever getting hit in over 35 years of cycling.

I&#039;ve never seen a cyclist who behaves in the wreckless way car drivers claim that they &quot;all&quot; do, but I do see plenty of car drivers every day who appear determined to kill someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 90% number was suspicious to me too, but not because I thought is was an exaggeration. If anything, I think cars are responsible for far more than that.</p>
<p>If I rode the way car drivers do (not paying attention to anything), I would probably get hit every day. It&#8217;s only because I&#8217;m an extremely defensive cyclist who assumes that every car is going to hit me that I&#8217;ve been able to avoid ever getting hit in over 35 years of cycling.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen a cyclist who behaves in the wreckless way car drivers claim that they &#8220;all&#8221; do, but I do see plenty of car drivers every day who appear determined to kill someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Who&#8217;s Responsible? @ Arizona Bike Law Blog</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3921</link>
		<dc:creator>Who&#8217;s Responsible? @ Arizona Bike Law Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3921</guid>
		<description>[...] at the commuteorlando blog. Links the 90% claim back to Komanoff&#8217;s group Killed by Automobile [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at the commuteorlando blog. Links the 90% claim back to Komanoff&#8217;s group Killed by Automobile [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3915</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3915</guid>
		<description>In the meantime, the Tulsa critical mass article is a hoot!

http://cycledog.blogspot.com/2009/09/tulsa-critical-mass-ride.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the meantime, the Tulsa critical mass article is a hoot!</p>
<p><a href="http://cycledog.blogspot.com/2009/09/tulsa-critical-mass-ride.html" rel="nofollow">http://cycledog.blogspot.com/2009/09/tulsa-critical-mass-ride.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ed W</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3913</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been in contact with Dr. Cavacuiti over the last few days.  He said he read several studies before making those statements to the university website.  One of the studies was from Right of Way and I stand by my statement regarding that one.  I&#039;ll post the full list on CycleDog, my Examiner page, and to the Chainguard list later tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been in contact with Dr. Cavacuiti over the last few days.  He said he read several studies before making those statements to the university website.  One of the studies was from Right of Way and I stand by my statement regarding that one.  I&#8217;ll post the full list on CycleDog, my Examiner page, and to the Chainguard list later tonight.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3903</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3903</guid>
		<description>I have not read the study (better things to do in my life).  But please bear in mind that a study in Toronto measuring &quot;culpability&quot; would be using the rules of Ontario&#039;s Highway Traffic Act.  Which has a &quot;reverse onus&quot; provision that states that motorists are legally liable for crashes unless they can prove that they are not negligent.  

Here is the wording:

&quot;When loss or damage is sustained by any person by reason of a motor vehicle on a highway, the onus of proof that the loss or damage did not arise through the negligence or improper conduct of the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle is upon the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle.&quot;

&quot;Highway&quot; includes all municipal roads.  So any study of things going through the legal system will be filtered through this prism of motorists automatically having legal liability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not read the study (better things to do in my life).  But please bear in mind that a study in Toronto measuring &#8220;culpability&#8221; would be using the rules of Ontario&#8217;s Highway Traffic Act.  Which has a &#8220;reverse onus&#8221; provision that states that motorists are legally liable for crashes unless they can prove that they are not negligent.  </p>
<p>Here is the wording:</p>
<p>&#8220;When loss or damage is sustained by any person by reason of a motor vehicle on a highway, the onus of proof that the loss or damage did not arise through the negligence or improper conduct of the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle is upon the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Highway&#8221; includes all municipal roads.  So any study of things going through the legal system will be filtered through this prism of motorists automatically having legal liability.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3902</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3902</guid>
		<description>J. Mork

I did read it. I agree with Ed&#039;s assessment of it.

Traffic justice, the culture of speed, the lack of seriousness Americans place on operating a vehicle, the abandonment of pedestrian enforcement (here in Florida), etc. are all serious issues. We discuss them regularly. But we try to avoid an us-v-them format, because car-v-bike wars are counter-productive. The transference of safety from individual behavior to &quot;other&quot; — passive device or other people — is the primary culprit and no one is excused. Yes, those operating heavy equipment should be held to a higher standard than they are, but all members of the community should be held to a higher standard than they are.

BTW, my observation in NYC is that right of way violations are an art form practiced by everyone. Motorists do more damage, but those are traffic culture issues that can&#039;t be blamed strictly on motorists. I&#039;d venture a bet that cars didn&#039;t create the underlying culture, people took the behavior with them into cars. Cars might be incompatible with a selfish culture, but which of those things would we benefit most from changing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J. Mork</p>
<p>I did read it. I agree with Ed&#8217;s assessment of it.</p>
<p>Traffic justice, the culture of speed, the lack of seriousness Americans place on operating a vehicle, the abandonment of pedestrian enforcement (here in Florida), etc. are all serious issues. We discuss them regularly. But we try to avoid an us-v-them format, because car-v-bike wars are counter-productive. The transference of safety from individual behavior to &#8220;other&#8221; — passive device or other people — is the primary culprit and no one is excused. Yes, those operating heavy equipment should be held to a higher standard than they are, but all members of the community should be held to a higher standard than they are.</p>
<p>BTW, my observation in NYC is that right of way violations are an art form practiced by everyone. Motorists do more damage, but those are traffic culture issues that can&#8217;t be blamed strictly on motorists. I&#8217;d venture a bet that cars didn&#8217;t create the underlying culture, people took the behavior with them into cars. Cars might be incompatible with a selfish culture, but which of those things would we benefit most from changing?</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3901</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3901</guid>
		<description>JohnB, two really good points!

Advocates respond to popular sentiment because it&#039;s easier than trying to change the belief system, no matter how incorrect. Coddling is easy, empowerment takes hard work.

The problem with that is it is short-sighted. Yes, they&#039;ll get short-term gains, but at the expense of long-term problems (dependency and backlash) and tragic unintended consequences. Working for culture change takes longer and faces more short-term challenges, but the long-term rewards are sustainable.

Fear of personal power is a good observation. And, yeah, it is true of many other aspects of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnB, two really good points!</p>
<p>Advocates respond to popular sentiment because it&#8217;s easier than trying to change the belief system, no matter how incorrect. Coddling is easy, empowerment takes hard work.</p>
<p>The problem with that is it is short-sighted. Yes, they&#8217;ll get short-term gains, but at the expense of long-term problems (dependency and backlash) and tragic unintended consequences. Working for culture change takes longer and faces more short-term challenges, but the long-term rewards are sustainable.</p>
<p>Fear of personal power is a good observation. And, yeah, it is true of many other aspects of life.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Mork</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3900</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Mork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3900</guid>
		<description>Perhaps someone should go read the study!

http://rightofway.org/research/kba_text.pdf

What it says is &quot;Drivers were largely or strictly culpable in 74 percent of pedestrian fatalities and partly culpable in another 16 percent, meaning that drivers were at least partly culpable in 90 percent of fatalities&quot;

It doesn&#039;t say that cyclists have no responsibility to keep themselves safe.  What the study is really trying to address is the tendency of society to blame the cyclist in nearly every crash even though, arguably, as the more dangerous road participant, the motor vehicle driver ought to be held to a much greater standard than what they are currently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps someone should go read the study!</p>
<p><a href="http://rightofway.org/research/kba_text.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://rightofway.org/research/kba_text.pdf</a></p>
<p>What it says is &#8220;Drivers were largely or strictly culpable in 74 percent of pedestrian fatalities and partly culpable in another 16 percent, meaning that drivers were at least partly culpable in 90 percent of fatalities&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t say that cyclists have no responsibility to keep themselves safe.  What the study is really trying to address is the tendency of society to blame the cyclist in nearly every crash even though, arguably, as the more dangerous road participant, the motor vehicle driver ought to be held to a much greater standard than what they are currently.</p>
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		<title>By: Rantwick</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3896</link>
		<dc:creator>Rantwick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3896</guid>
		<description>Ridiculous. I saw it on cycledog first. I agree with others who really appreciate people like you who are critical thinkers first, and raving cycling advocates second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ridiculous. I saw it on cycledog first. I agree with others who really appreciate people like you who are critical thinkers first, and raving cycling advocates second.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnB</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/09/01/10-huh-dont-fall-for-it/comment-page-1/#comment-3895</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4556#comment-3895</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why is #2 so much more appealing to bike advocates and so many cyclists?&quot;

What ha1ku said. Then the advocates whose primary goal is &quot;butts on bikes&quot; hear inexperienced cyclists cite #2 as the reason they don&#039;t bike more, and the advocates don&#039;t think through the implications of running with that, or maybe they agree with it themselves, for said reason.

It takes time and probably a certain amount of maturity to realize that you actually have power, instead of constantly ceding it to those around you. Denying that you have any is easier and less scary, because then you don&#039;t have to do anything with it.

I think that&#039;s a general truth about life, not just cycling in traffic. And some people don&#039;t seem to ever learn that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why is #2 so much more appealing to bike advocates and so many cyclists?&#8221;</p>
<p>What ha1ku said. Then the advocates whose primary goal is &#8220;butts on bikes&#8221; hear inexperienced cyclists cite #2 as the reason they don&#8217;t bike more, and the advocates don&#8217;t think through the implications of running with that, or maybe they agree with it themselves, for said reason.</p>
<p>It takes time and probably a certain amount of maturity to realize that you actually have power, instead of constantly ceding it to those around you. Denying that you have any is easier and less scary, because then you don&#8217;t have to do anything with it.</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a general truth about life, not just cycling in traffic. And some people don&#8217;t seem to ever learn that.</p>
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