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	<title>Comments on: The Culture of Speed vs the Culture of Trust</title>
	<atom:link href="http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/</link>
	<description>Encouragement, Education &#38; Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:31:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3614</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3614</guid>
		<description>Mighk wrote:
&quot;Guerrilla marketing is what’s needed.&quot;

Kevin&#039;s comment:
Guerrilla marketing is good, and I particularily liked the Youtube &quot;Free delivery with second order.&quot;  That&#039;s got just the right edgy zing for my sense of humour.

But what I really think is needed is adequate law enforcement.  I posted above about Mr. Sekhon.  That sort of thing needs to happen in Florida as well as Ontario.   Throwing dangerous drivers in jail before they cause crashes, hurt or kill people is the right way to go.  

And it sends a clear message to all drivers:  Behave aggressively around cyclists and you&#039;re going to jail for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mighk wrote:<br />
&#8220;Guerrilla marketing is what’s needed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s comment:<br />
Guerrilla marketing is good, and I particularily liked the Youtube &#8220;Free delivery with second order.&#8221;  That&#8217;s got just the right edgy zing for my sense of humour.</p>
<p>But what I really think is needed is adequate law enforcement.  I posted above about Mr. Sekhon.  That sort of thing needs to happen in Florida as well as Ontario.   Throwing dangerous drivers in jail before they cause crashes, hurt or kill people is the right way to go.  </p>
<p>And it sends a clear message to all drivers:  Behave aggressively around cyclists and you&#8217;re going to jail for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mighk</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3606</link>
		<dc:creator>Mighk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3606</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll add my kudos to Keri late; just got back from vacation in the very laid back driving environment of Fraser Valley, Colorado, where bicyclists are everywhere and motorists yield to pedestrians in unsignalized crosswalks.

Culture change is tough stuff.  Our legislature doesn&#039;t seem very interested in doing that; just attacking symptoms (cell phone use, texting, aggressive driving, three-foot law, etc.).

Guerrilla marketing is what&#039;s needed.  Stuff like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTLqCLYy22A
and
http://www.5thguy.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll add my kudos to Keri late; just got back from vacation in the very laid back driving environment of Fraser Valley, Colorado, where bicyclists are everywhere and motorists yield to pedestrians in unsignalized crosswalks.</p>
<p>Culture change is tough stuff.  Our legislature doesn&#8217;t seem very interested in doing that; just attacking symptoms (cell phone use, texting, aggressive driving, three-foot law, etc.).</p>
<p>Guerrilla marketing is what&#8217;s needed.  Stuff like:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTLqCLYy22A" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTLqCLYy22A</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.5thguy.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.5thguy.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3604</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3604</guid>
		<description>Laura wrote:

&quot;The problem is, in order to improve conditions so that using transit is practical even for people that own a car costs money...&quot;

Kevin&#039;s comment:
The expansion of I-75 is South-West Florida took great, heaping gobs of multi-million dollar government payouts.  Transit would be dirt-cheap in comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;The problem is, in order to improve conditions so that using transit is practical even for people that own a car costs money&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s comment:<br />
The expansion of I-75 is South-West Florida took great, heaping gobs of multi-million dollar government payouts.  Transit would be dirt-cheap in comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3600</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3600</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Eric said &quot;That’s not harsh. The people that are harsh are the employers. Since I have been one, I know . . . and I was harsh, too.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Bingo! The prevailing attitude from most people, is that people that have to get to work by a means other than an automobile are poor, lawbreakers, or derelicts. And those that actually choose transit, biking or walking are granola crunching, tree hugging, hipster fringe folks. The poor are incredibly marginalized in Central Florida. 

The problem is, in order to improve conditions so that using transit is practical even for people that own a car costs money. The general public and especially the elected officials are hesitant to spend money that would &#039;subsidize&#039; the poor and marginalized in our community so it doesn&#039;t happen. Don&#039;t raise taxes is the overwhelming mantra and as a whole, the Central Florida community embraces that philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Eric said &#8220;That’s not harsh. The people that are harsh are the employers. Since I have been one, I know . . . and I was harsh, too.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Bingo! The prevailing attitude from most people, is that people that have to get to work by a means other than an automobile are poor, lawbreakers, or derelicts. And those that actually choose transit, biking or walking are granola crunching, tree hugging, hipster fringe folks. The poor are incredibly marginalized in Central Florida. </p>
<p>The problem is, in order to improve conditions so that using transit is practical even for people that own a car costs money. The general public and especially the elected officials are hesitant to spend money that would &#8217;subsidize&#8217; the poor and marginalized in our community so it doesn&#8217;t happen. Don&#8217;t raise taxes is the overwhelming mantra and as a whole, the Central Florida community embraces that philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3590</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3590</guid>
		<description>Keri wrote:
&quot;We need to find jail space to keep scumbags like this off the street BEFORE they kill.&quot;

Kevin&#039;s comment:
Yesterday morning, Ontario&#039;s provincial police did just that.  From:

http://www.thestar.com/article/678241

&quot;A 28-year-old Brampton man was charged after police clocked a car travelling at nearly three times the speed limit on a Brampton road yesterday morning.

...

Harjinde Sekhon, 28, was charged with dangerous driving and stunt driving.

He was released on bail and his car impounded and licence suspended for seven days.&quot; 


Kevin&#039;s comment:
There was no crash, nobody killed, nobody injured.  But a crazy car driver was driving at a ridiculous speed, so the police arrested him, threw him in jail, impounded his car and handed him an on-the-spot seven-day license suspension. 

I&#039;ve got a strong feeling that the judge who let him out of jail on bail ran his driver&#039;s license through a shredder.  Or, to use more legal language, gave him a prohibition order forbidding him from driving as a condition of his release on bail.

Dangerous driving where no injury occurs is an indictable offense under the Criminal Code of Canada, good for up to five years in jail.  The criminal then has a criminal record, a minimum one-year driver&#039;s license suspension (the clock starts when he gets out of jail) and extreme difficulty and expense in ever getting car insurance. 

Stunt driving is an Ontario Highway Traffic Act charge, good for up to six months in jail and a driver&#039;s license suspension up to two years.   Again, insurance companies will really, really, not want to do business with you.

This is one scumbag driver who already had a taste of jail before he made bail, and is about to get a lot more upon conviction.  All BEFORE he killed or injured someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keri wrote:<br />
&#8220;We need to find jail space to keep scumbags like this off the street BEFORE they kill.&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s comment:<br />
Yesterday morning, Ontario&#8217;s provincial police did just that.  From:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thestar.com/article/678241" rel="nofollow">http://www.thestar.com/article/678241</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A 28-year-old Brampton man was charged after police clocked a car travelling at nearly three times the speed limit on a Brampton road yesterday morning.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Harjinde Sekhon, 28, was charged with dangerous driving and stunt driving.</p>
<p>He was released on bail and his car impounded and licence suspended for seven days.&#8221; </p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s comment:<br />
There was no crash, nobody killed, nobody injured.  But a crazy car driver was driving at a ridiculous speed, so the police arrested him, threw him in jail, impounded his car and handed him an on-the-spot seven-day license suspension. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a strong feeling that the judge who let him out of jail on bail ran his driver&#8217;s license through a shredder.  Or, to use more legal language, gave him a prohibition order forbidding him from driving as a condition of his release on bail.</p>
<p>Dangerous driving where no injury occurs is an indictable offense under the Criminal Code of Canada, good for up to five years in jail.  The criminal then has a criminal record, a minimum one-year driver&#8217;s license suspension (the clock starts when he gets out of jail) and extreme difficulty and expense in ever getting car insurance. </p>
<p>Stunt driving is an Ontario Highway Traffic Act charge, good for up to six months in jail and a driver&#8217;s license suspension up to two years.   Again, insurance companies will really, really, not want to do business with you.</p>
<p>This is one scumbag driver who already had a taste of jail before he made bail, and is about to get a lot more upon conviction.  All BEFORE he killed or injured someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve A</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3583</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 04:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3583</guid>
		<description>Eric&#039;s observation is one reason that civil service and professional types (such as engineers) commute by bicycle more often than those in jobs where 400 people can apply for an opening.

Yet another observation contained in EFFECTIVE CYCLING.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric&#8217;s observation is one reason that civil service and professional types (such as engineers) commute by bicycle more often than those in jobs where 400 people can apply for an opening.</p>
<p>Yet another observation contained in EFFECTIVE CYCLING.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3582</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3582</guid>
		<description>&quot;Sorry to be harsh, Eric&quot;

That&#039;s not harsh. The people that are harsh are the employers. Since I have been one, I know  . . . and I was harsh, too.

Do you think an employer wants to hear, &quot;Gee, I&#039;d like to come in Saturday, but the buses only run once an hour, so it would take me three hours to get there and three hours to get home, so it really isn&#039;t worth it to me.&quot;? Or, &quot;If I stay 20 minutes late, then I&#039;ll miss the bus and if I take the next one, that means I&#039;ll miss the day care closing.&quot;? You think that gladdens their heart?

Do you think they want to see an employee come in sweaty to work? Or demanding showers? Or being late to an important meeting because it was pouring down rain? As you might know, it can rain in buckets here in Orlando.

I&#039;m sorry to explain to you that when there are 400 people applying for a single opening, employers can afford to be very choosy.

They can choose not to employ convicts (even ones that have been only convicted of a minor misdemeanor) and one of the stock questions to ask prospective employees is, &quot;How will you get to work?&quot; as well as, &quot;Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor or felony crime?&quot; Criminal background checks are pretty standard these days, so lying won&#039;t work.

That&#039;s harsh and that&#039;s reality. The judges know it, the employers know it and I know it.

In fact, I and other people in the know look more favorably on people that must ride bikes to eat because at least they aren&#039;t driving around causing mayhem they way the unlicensed drivers are doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sorry to be harsh, Eric&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not harsh. The people that are harsh are the employers. Since I have been one, I know  . . . and I was harsh, too.</p>
<p>Do you think an employer wants to hear, &#8220;Gee, I&#8217;d like to come in Saturday, but the buses only run once an hour, so it would take me three hours to get there and three hours to get home, so it really isn&#8217;t worth it to me.&#8221;? Or, &#8220;If I stay 20 minutes late, then I&#8217;ll miss the bus and if I take the next one, that means I&#8217;ll miss the day care closing.&#8221;? You think that gladdens their heart?</p>
<p>Do you think they want to see an employee come in sweaty to work? Or demanding showers? Or being late to an important meeting because it was pouring down rain? As you might know, it can rain in buckets here in Orlando.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry to explain to you that when there are 400 people applying for a single opening, employers can afford to be very choosy.</p>
<p>They can choose not to employ convicts (even ones that have been only convicted of a minor misdemeanor) and one of the stock questions to ask prospective employees is, &#8220;How will you get to work?&#8221; as well as, &#8220;Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor or felony crime?&#8221; Criminal background checks are pretty standard these days, so lying won&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s harsh and that&#8217;s reality. The judges know it, the employers know it and I know it.</p>
<p>In fact, I and other people in the know look more favorably on people that must ride bikes to eat because at least they aren&#8217;t driving around causing mayhem they way the unlicensed drivers are doing.</p>
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		<title>By: ChipSeal</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3581</link>
		<dc:creator>ChipSeal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3581</guid>
		<description>Eric said; &quot;&lt;i&gt;Mostly because if you can’t drive, you can’t eat.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Sorry to be harsh, Eric, but this is thinking from behind a windshield. I am assuming you are voicing our cultural attitude and not your own thoughts on this.

If it is illegal for you to operate a motor vehicle on public roads, you must depend on others to operate one for you, or to propel yourself by your own power. Needing to work or eat is not an acceptable excuse for criminal behavior. 

Do you see kids who are too young to drive starving because of it? Lose your license and you are assigning yourself in some ways to a childlike dependence on others. 

If you choose to live far from your workplace, one should be all the more mindful to avoid losing one&#039;s license to drive.

One of the reasons that there is no cultural shame for breaking traffic laws is that doing so is not really considered criminal behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric said; &#8220;<i>Mostly because if you can’t drive, you can’t eat.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry to be harsh, Eric, but this is thinking from behind a windshield. I am assuming you are voicing our cultural attitude and not your own thoughts on this.</p>
<p>If it is illegal for you to operate a motor vehicle on public roads, you must depend on others to operate one for you, or to propel yourself by your own power. Needing to work or eat is not an acceptable excuse for criminal behavior. </p>
<p>Do you see kids who are too young to drive starving because of it? Lose your license and you are assigning yourself in some ways to a childlike dependence on others. </p>
<p>If you choose to live far from your workplace, one should be all the more mindful to avoid losing one&#8217;s license to drive.</p>
<p>One of the reasons that there is no cultural shame for breaking traffic laws is that doing so is not really considered criminal behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3579</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3579</guid>
		<description>We need to find jail space to keep &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/whas11-topstories-090801-cyclist-record.9ff6c542.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scumbags like this&lt;/a&gt; off the street BEFORE they kill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to find jail space to keep <a href="http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/whas11-topstories-090801-cyclist-record.9ff6c542.html" rel="nofollow">scumbags like this</a> off the street BEFORE they kill.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/08/04/the-culture-of-speed-vs-the-culture-of-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-3578</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4356#comment-3578</guid>
		<description>Eric wrote:
&quot;Not enough jail or prison space to lock up all the people driving on suspended or revoked licenses&quot;

Kevin&#039;s comment:
Those who do in Ontario can expect jail time; a first offense is worth up to six months in jail under the Highway Traffic Act, Section 51.  Every so often I read in the newspapers of someone who tries to do it, is caught, and jailed.  He usually then also gets a court order not to drive - disobeying a court order is worth a lot more than six months in jail!

So far, we seem to have lots of space in jail to accomodate these offenders.  Probably because prostitution is legal and marijuana possession has been effectively decriminalized.  The decision was made that getting violent criminal drivers off the roads would be a higher priority for our legal system.

Source:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK66</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric wrote:<br />
&#8220;Not enough jail or prison space to lock up all the people driving on suspended or revoked licenses&#8221;</p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s comment:<br />
Those who do in Ontario can expect jail time; a first offense is worth up to six months in jail under the Highway Traffic Act, Section 51.  Every so often I read in the newspapers of someone who tries to do it, is caught, and jailed.  He usually then also gets a court order not to drive &#8211; disobeying a court order is worth a lot more than six months in jail!</p>
<p>So far, we seem to have lots of space in jail to accomodate these offenders.  Probably because prostitution is legal and marijuana possession has been effectively decriminalized.  The decision was made that getting violent criminal drivers off the roads would be a higher priority for our legal system.</p>
<p>Source:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK66" rel="nofollow">http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK66</a></p>
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