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	<title>Comments on: Possible Opportunity on Edgewater Drive</title>
	<atom:link href="http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/</link>
	<description>Encouragement, Education &#38; Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World</description>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3179</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3179</guid>
		<description>I am grateful that Laura brought this to the community. It&#039;s really important that both cyclists and the city understand the issues, opportunities and perspectives. Most have rarely heard a point of view that counters the common assumption that bike lanes are the solution to all problems. That assumption has lead to a nasty trend of shoehorning bike lanes into substandard spaces, rather than holistic problem solving.

The elephants, as Eric calls them (in a future post that looks promising), have been calling the shots for too long with little alternative input or critique to counter-balance them.

That was the impetus for this website. I want to bring the cycling community to a level of awareness and confidence as cyclists that they can ask for stuff that truly benefits them and resist symbolic stuff that doesn&#039;t.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2008/07/10/the-swinging-door/#baldwin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Symbolic things&lt;/a&gt; divert money and political will away from solving &lt;a href=&quot;http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/02/the-dreaded-busy-two-lane-road/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;real problems.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am grateful that Laura brought this to the community. It&#8217;s really important that both cyclists and the city understand the issues, opportunities and perspectives. Most have rarely heard a point of view that counters the common assumption that bike lanes are the solution to all problems. That assumption has lead to a nasty trend of shoehorning bike lanes into substandard spaces, rather than holistic problem solving.</p>
<p>The elephants, as Eric calls them (in a future post that looks promising), have been calling the shots for too long with little alternative input or critique to counter-balance them.</p>
<p>That was the impetus for this website. I want to bring the cycling community to a level of awareness and confidence as cyclists that they can ask for stuff that truly benefits them and resist symbolic stuff that doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p><a href="http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2008/07/10/the-swinging-door/#baldwin" rel="nofollow">Symbolic things</a> divert money and political will away from solving <a href="http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/02/the-dreaded-busy-two-lane-road/" rel="nofollow">real problems.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3177</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3177</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thanks to Laura to ask.
If she were to take what she heard here back to her engineering friends she might be putting her job in jeopardy.

I’m serious, Laura. They don’t want to know what we (the users of what they design) think.

They want to to know what the elephants (as I call them in another post) think.&quot;

What can I say, it&#039;s a Don Quixote complex. Anyway, I brought it up as discussion here b/c I feel input from commuting cyclists is a good thing. I commend the City for wanting to improve conditions. But what I don&#039;t want is the City to give up if someone criticizes their approach.  During discussions, the City reps knew it was a very long shot to get FDOT to agree to the 10.5&#039; lanes. The resurfacing would go a long long way to improving things for cyclists and I think there are some good ideas in this thread. Food for thought for the powers that be anyway. All you really can do is get your comments on the record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Thanks to Laura to ask.<br />
If she were to take what she heard here back to her engineering friends she might be putting her job in jeopardy.</p>
<p>I’m serious, Laura. They don’t want to know what we (the users of what they design) think.</p>
<p>They want to to know what the elephants (as I call them in another post) think.&#8221;</p>
<p>What can I say, it&#8217;s a Don Quixote complex. Anyway, I brought it up as discussion here b/c I feel input from commuting cyclists is a good thing. I commend the City for wanting to improve conditions. But what I don&#8217;t want is the City to give up if someone criticizes their approach.  During discussions, the City reps knew it was a very long shot to get FDOT to agree to the 10.5&#8242; lanes. The resurfacing would go a long long way to improving things for cyclists and I think there are some good ideas in this thread. Food for thought for the powers that be anyway. All you really can do is get your comments on the record.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3163</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3163</guid>
		<description>Enough already with Copenhagen. Kevin you post the same stuff over and over. No one here is interested. No one here is buying it. This post was about solving a problem for cyclists on Edgewater Drive. 

We have issues to deal with here. Stop hijacking our discussions with cycletrack propaganda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enough already with Copenhagen. Kevin you post the same stuff over and over. No one here is interested. No one here is buying it. This post was about solving a problem for cyclists on Edgewater Drive. </p>
<p>We have issues to deal with here. Stop hijacking our discussions with cycletrack propaganda.</p>
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		<title>By: danc</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3162</link>
		<dc:creator>danc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3162</guid>
		<description>Kevin, you not snowing this one over ...

CPH: &quot;Precipitation is moderate throughout the year, and snowfall occurs mainly in December through March, but snow cover does not remain a long time.&quot;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Climate

ABE: &quot;Snowfall is variable, with some winters bringing light snow and others bringing numerous significant snowstorms. Average snowfall is 82.3 centimetres (32.4 in) per year, with the months of January and February receiving the highest at just over 22.86 centimetres (9.00 in) each&quot;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allentown,_Pennsylvania#Climate

Oh my 5 centimetres (cm) of snow that&#039;s almost 2 inches of snow? That is some dusting!  So how do get an average of over 32 inches of snow, it get&#039;s cold and stays cold, Allentown&#039;s January lows average −6 °C (21.2 °F) and highs average 1.3 °C (34.3 °F)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, you not snowing this one over &#8230;</p>
<p>CPH: &#8220;Precipitation is moderate throughout the year, and snowfall occurs mainly in December through March, but snow cover does not remain a long time.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Climate" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen#Climate</a></p>
<p>ABE: &#8220;Snowfall is variable, with some winters bringing light snow and others bringing numerous significant snowstorms. Average snowfall is 82.3 centimetres (32.4 in) per year, with the months of January and February receiving the highest at just over 22.86 centimetres (9.00 in) each&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allentown,_Pennsylvania#Climate" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allentown,_Pennsylvania#Climate</a></p>
<p>Oh my 5 centimetres (cm) of snow that&#8217;s almost 2 inches of snow? That is some dusting!  So how do get an average of over 32 inches of snow, it get&#8217;s cold and stays cold, Allentown&#8217;s January lows average −6 °C (21.2 °F) and highs average 1.3 °C (34.3 °F)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3161</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3161</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re probably wondering the relevance of snow in Copenhagen to Orlando in July.  The point, of course, is that environmental issues pose technical problems.  But that is no excuse to prevent solutions to enable a mass cycling culture.

Finally, John wrote about:
&quot;...riders who understand best practices and an environment which is consistent with best practices...&quot;

I&#039;ve been there, cycled that.  In Holland.  And saw and cycled for myself just why the USA has a bicycle death and injury rate 17 times as high as NL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re probably wondering the relevance of snow in Copenhagen to Orlando in July.  The point, of course, is that environmental issues pose technical problems.  But that is no excuse to prevent solutions to enable a mass cycling culture.</p>
<p>Finally, John wrote about:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;riders who understand best practices and an environment which is consistent with best practices&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been there, cycled that.  In Holland.  And saw and cycled for myself just why the USA has a bicycle death and injury rate 17 times as high as NL.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3160</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3160</guid>
		<description>From February 22:

&quot;The snow continues to fall in Copenhagen but the bicycles continue rolling.&quot;

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-rush-hour-in-copenhagen.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From February 22:</p>
<p>&#8220;The snow continues to fall in Copenhagen but the bicycles continue rolling.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-rush-hour-in-copenhagen.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-rush-hour-in-copenhagen.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3159</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3159</guid>
		<description>On February 19, he writes:

&quot;It&#039;s been snowing for a few days now and all day today the city has been continually dusted with snow. 

The bike lane snowploughs have been working overtime. You can hear them drone past late at night and they continue through the day. A fleet of small tractors are assisting them in keeping the bike lanes clear and salted.&quot;

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-bicycle-lanes-in-copenhagen.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On February 19, he writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s been snowing for a few days now and all day today the city has been continually dusted with snow. </p>
<p>The bike lane snowploughs have been working overtime. You can hear them drone past late at night and they continue through the day. A fleet of small tractors are assisting them in keeping the bike lanes clear and salted.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-bicycle-lanes-in-copenhagen.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-bicycle-lanes-in-copenhagen.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3158</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3158</guid>
		<description>A Copenhagen winter commuting video after a 5 cm snowfall on February 16.


http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-commute.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Copenhagen winter commuting video after a 5 cm snowfall on February 16.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-commute.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-commute.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3157</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3157</guid>
		<description>A snowfall on February 11.  The author writes:

&quot;In the city there was only about 8 cm but the snow continued falling...&quot;

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-cycling.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A snowfall on February 11.  The author writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the city there was only about 8 cm but the snow continued falling&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-cycling.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/winter-cycling.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Love</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/07/03/possible-opportunity-on-edgewater-drive/comment-page-1/#comment-3156</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=4024#comment-3156</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another one, from February 8, where the author expresses his desire for a 50 cm accumulation of snow so that he and his children can go sledding.

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/keeping-flow-flowing.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another one, from February 8, where the author expresses his desire for a 50 cm accumulation of snow so that he and his children can go sledding.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/keeping-flow-flowing.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.copenhagenize.com/2009/02/keeping-flow-flowing.html</a></p>
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