Ha! I was gonna suggest the same thing. It’s fewer stop signs, but mainly I love that corner. I tend to ride slow unless there’s a hard right turn where I can totally rip the corner. A momentary thrill, then I go back to moseying.

Rick, I can’t remember if you had slicks or knobbies on that mountain bike. If it’s knobbies, don’t try hammering corners.

No, I didn’t mention your position because I found nothing interesting to comment on…

Rick said:
>I think selfishness is a big key here as well as personal responsibility, or the lack therof. Much of my behavior is motivated by my own selfish motives. I can lie to myself and say that I am doing it for a “honorable” reason, but I find there is usually a selfish underlying motive.

We are all creatures of instinct. Being driven by self interest, which in turn is tied in to the very primal behavior of self preservation, is not such a bad thing in my book. Self interest is what guides us all in our decision making process as we live our lives (whether we are honest about it or not). Think about it, altruistic people get a sense of satisfaction from giving to their community. Is this not a form of self interest? Many of you have pointed out that you feel the need to lead by example; how much does self interest play in to this decision? Not trying to wax and wane all philosophical but I just don’t look at self interest as being such a bad thing. It’s once that self interest infringes on others rights to exist does it now become problematic…

Simply put, if my actions cause someone harm, I “man” up and do the responsible thing. How is this now a lack of personal responsibility?

Rick said
>If I am going down Merrit Park Road which is a long downhill with 3 stop signs…

Man I love that street, it’s definitely one of my favorite roads in this area. Reminds me of some of the scenery back north for some reason. This will probably get a lot of you bent out of shape but I blast down that hill quite a bit when I cut through that area on my way in to Winter Park. Its not a heavily traveled road so it makes for a great route in to Winter Park via Mead Gardens. Rick, if you want to add a bit of technical riding to it, make a left on to Rowena off Merrit Park then follow it down to Lakeside Dr. Less stop signs, a nice big curve and its all down hill. Lots of fun!

Keri said
>Neither do I. I ride because I enjoy it.

I think you (and many others) took this out comment out of context. It was not an attack on your rationale for doing what you do but rather mentioned as a way to provide a frame of reference as to why I ride. All to often I hear lofty ideals put forth regarding the rationale people ride bikes these days. Some claim it as a badge of their status in the socio economic spectrum while others will claim to do so for some political motive. I was just pointing out that none of this plays in to my reasoning for riding a bike. Again, self interest…

Eric said:
>I’m waiting for a crash to happen at the Cady Way Trail/Baldwin Park St. intersection. The other day I saw a guy ignore the stop sign and blast right through it at full steam without even turning his head. Drivers slamming on brakes was the only thing that kept a crash from happening and the motorists don’t get much of a sight line there.

This intersection is just terribly designed. Not only do motorists not have a clear line of sight but neither do cyclists. This is the one intersection that usually forces me to stop (or come close to stopping) because of how dangerous it is…

So you blow through those stop signs without slowing down? Man that is lame. Since it is downhill, it is easier to get started again.

“but I do have downshift severely”

Wow. So much effort expended. And with indexed shifting, I don’t see any problem with downshifting “severely.”

I’m waiting for a crash to happen at the Cady Way Trail/Baldwin Park St. intersection. The other day I saw a guy ignore the stop sign and blast right through it at full steam without even turning his head. Drivers slamming on brakes was the only thing that kept a crash from happening and the motorists don’t get much of a sight line there.

“I don’t commute by bicycle because I’m trying to influence others or make some sort of political / social statement…”

Neither do I. I ride because I enjoy it.

I teach because I want to empower others to enjoy it without struggle and conflict. When people take up riding without any influence other than our damaged culture, they ride in ways that make their lives difficult and frustrating.

I’m an advocate because I want to change that culture. And because I want to save cycling from the “bike advocates” who manipulate fear and superstition because they view cycling as a means to an end and don’t really care about cyclists.

As far as cycling behavior, I am still a newbie having been commuting for just over a year now. My crash and 2 near crashes were solo affairs and I learned from them. Each one had a different cause. My only near crash with a car involved my being on a side walk when I had first started and before I read the Gospel of Commute Orlando. The car didn’t see me and I almost went over the handlebars to avoid him.

I do feel that I should lead by example. If I am going down Merrit Park Road which is a long downhill with 3 stop signs it is hard to lose momentum, but the driver headed the other way or the one behind me looks at me run the stop sign and says, “That’s just what I see all the time, those cyclists think they are above the law!” Not to mention how narrow that street is with limited sight distance. Most of the time it is a slow rolling stop, but I do have downshift severely. I just feel like I can be an advocate in this small way.

You didn’t mention my position. Maybe since I haven’t had a car crash in over 40 years of cycling, I don’t count?

I have always followed the laws as I understood them to be. That meant I was a “gutter bunny” for many years. And in the last two or so years, when I ride a bit further out, I haven’t been ploughed over by the “crazy” drivers.

In fact, I think that all this danger stuff is much to be made about nothing.

How many years do I have to ride without a wreck before I make it into the newspaper?

Mighk answered:
>I don’t dislike the ride. I just have a problem with the foolish belief that it will do things it simply cannot do. Like Keri, I believe it celebrates cycling, creates community, and to some extent re-frames the way people perceive our streets.

Interesting as it tends to echo my own sentiments. I personally don’t believe that CM has that much of an impact on motorists perceptions (it actually feels at times that it actually does the opposite, create hostility) but I show up regularly because of the community aspect. There are some within the group that truly believe in the ride but there are others like myself that just enjoy getting together for the ride and hold no “delusions of grandeur” regarding the shifting of motorists paradigms…

BTW, CM is not “run” by a select few. Everyone is encouraged to voice their opinions about route, best practices, etc etc.

>I guess everyone can come up with a selfish reason not to follow the rules, it comes down to whether or not you think the rules have value in making the system work.

Interesting point. Sure I guess you could say I’m being selfish because I choose to disregard certain “rules”. But maybe it also stems from me personally thinking some of these rules are not meant for me to begin with. Some of these rules I adhere to because they are common sense but there are others I choose to disregard because I find them pointless. I see no reason why I should lead by example and be some kind of role model because that’s not what I’m here to do. With this in mind a lot of the same motivations that drive you and some of the others on here really don’t come in to play with me. I don’t commute by bicycle because I’m trying to influence others or make some sort of political / social statement, I ride because I love to. I choose this mode of transport for both the pragmatic and aesthetic reasons I love about the bicycle. I’ve never claimed to advocate my manner of riding as the correct and only way, its just something that works for me and I consciously choose to do. The difference between me and others is that I always take responsibility for my actions….

I admire your drive to lead by example, I really do. I just don’t share that same drive and instead choose to practice something that works for me…

“When you view car crashes as ‘accidents’ it removes the personal responsibility of the folks involved.”

Say it loud, say it often.

Everything in our culture, right down the language we use, encourages victim-hood over personal responsibility.

That’s why I object to anthropomorphized vehicles. It makes my hair stand up on end when someone says “car” when they’re talking about the actions of the driver.

That may seem like semantic nitpicking to some people, but it’s not. It’s part of the insidious obscuring of the individual’s responsibility for consequences. Just as Andrew says we have to stop referring to roads as unsafe, we have to stop referring to crashes as accidents and drivers as the inanimate objects they control.

TBM: Follow the rules? Yes, pretty much all the time. Since I commute to/from work at fixed times, I notice the same people in the same cars driving past me at just about the same time and place. For instance, there’s this guy in a black SmartCar I see almost every day, right at the corner of South Orange and Livingston when I am coming into work. We wave to each other, just because …… the point is, I want those same drivers who see me on my commute every day to at least have one positive image of a cyclist who they see stops at red lights, signals for turns, and is aware of what is going around him in traffic and is obeying traffic rules.