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	<title>Comments on: In TN there is no legal obligation to see a cyclist</title>
	<atom:link href="http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/</link>
	<description>Encouragement, Education &#38; Advocacy for Bicycling in the Real World</description>
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		<title>By: Trikester</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1800</link>
		<dc:creator>Trikester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1800</guid>
		<description>&quot;Didn&#039;t SEE&quot; is a legal excuse?

Okay, how about a driver who &quot;didn&#039;t see&quot; the elderly disabled woman with her buggy crossing on a red because she can&#039;t walk fast enough on the pedestrian light to get through before it changes?

&quot;Didn&#039;t see&quot; is a wide-open invitation to abuse anything on the road not encased in steel armor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Didn&#8217;t SEE&#8221; is a legal excuse?</p>
<p>Okay, how about a driver who &#8220;didn&#8217;t see&#8221; the elderly disabled woman with her buggy crossing on a red because she can&#8217;t walk fast enough on the pedestrian light to get through before it changes?</p>
<p>&#8220;Didn&#8217;t see&#8221; is a wide-open invitation to abuse anything on the road not encased in steel armor.</p>
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		<title>By: fred_dot_u</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1740</link>
		<dc:creator>fred_dot_u</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1740</guid>
		<description>AndrewP, I plan to build a PDF package containing the citations and the supporting documents that were included in the Motion to Dismiss, which was so wonderfully successful! I will make it known in the many forums I visit that it&#039;s available and Keri has also offered to place a link here.

Directly related to that, a Port Orange PD patrol car trailed me for some distance and then passed and continued on his way. Perhaps they got the good news before I did.

I rarely have to ride at night, although I very much enjoy the dark morning hours. That new 3M clothing that turns a rider into a human torch is pretty amazing, but would not work in our hot humid environment and would be useless for me inside the velomobile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AndrewP, I plan to build a PDF package containing the citations and the supporting documents that were included in the Motion to Dismiss, which was so wonderfully successful! I will make it known in the many forums I visit that it&#8217;s available and Keri has also offered to place a link here.</p>
<p>Directly related to that, a Port Orange PD patrol car trailed me for some distance and then passed and continued on his way. Perhaps they got the good news before I did.</p>
<p>I rarely have to ride at night, although I very much enjoy the dark morning hours. That new 3M clothing that turns a rider into a human torch is pretty amazing, but would not work in our hot humid environment and would be useless for me inside the velomobile.</p>
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		<title>By: rodney</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1737</link>
		<dc:creator>rodney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1737</guid>
		<description>I went back and read more of the comments.  What a bunch of inbred, backwoods, hillbilly rednecks these folks are.

After reading the comments, it seriously makes me think of checking out of the human race.  I don&#039;t want to be &quot;guilty by association&quot; if you know what I mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went back and read more of the comments.  What a bunch of inbred, backwoods, hillbilly rednecks these folks are.</p>
<p>After reading the comments, it seriously makes me think of checking out of the human race.  I don&#8217;t want to be &#8220;guilty by association&#8221; if you know what I mean.</p>
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		<title>By: JC Tripp</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1736</link>
		<dc:creator>JC Tripp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1736</guid>
		<description>I lived in Chattanooga for a few months a couple of years ago, wanting to check out the scene there. I had read that it was very pro-cycling. Yes, there are bikelanes and people using them. But, as anywhere else, cars rule. Compounding this is the fact that overall it is a hilly city and many of the roads have no shoulders at all. Also, it&#039;s a sprawled out city and most of the residential areas are outside the downtown. I would suggest that anyone concerned about this case contact some of the city&#039;s principle businesses which rely on tourism and let them know how concerned you are about bicycling safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived in Chattanooga for a few months a couple of years ago, wanting to check out the scene there. I had read that it was very pro-cycling. Yes, there are bikelanes and people using them. But, as anywhere else, cars rule. Compounding this is the fact that overall it is a hilly city and many of the roads have no shoulders at all. Also, it&#8217;s a sprawled out city and most of the residential areas are outside the downtown. I would suggest that anyone concerned about this case contact some of the city&#8217;s principle businesses which rely on tourism and let them know how concerned you are about bicycling safety.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan (Oregon)</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1735</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan (Oregon)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1735</guid>
		<description>I used to joke that I could light myself on fire while riding and most motorists would still claim they never saw me.

I have so much reflective tape on my bike I think it might be safe to say that I am more visible at night than in the daytime. If I get hit at night, somebody was aiming for me.

So, does the same get out of jail free law apply if a driver hits someone on a motorcycle, or a person crossing the street?

Sounds like TN needs laws like they have in Amsterdam or Copenhagen, which automatically assumes the driver is at fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to joke that I could light myself on fire while riding and most motorists would still claim they never saw me.</p>
<p>I have so much reflective tape on my bike I think it might be safe to say that I am more visible at night than in the daytime. If I get hit at night, somebody was aiming for me.</p>
<p>So, does the same get out of jail free law apply if a driver hits someone on a motorcycle, or a person crossing the street?</p>
<p>Sounds like TN needs laws like they have in Amsterdam or Copenhagen, which automatically assumes the driver is at fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Keri</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1734</link>
		<dc:creator>Keri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1734</guid>
		<description>Shek, I have no legal expertise, but I&#039;d say that &quot;failure to use due care&quot; should be a factor in that crash.

I have encountered unlit, darkly-clad cyclists at night many times. It&#039;s quite common around here. I have seen them with my headlights and managed to avoid them. I drive the speed limit and pay attention to the road. Sadly, our culture seems to think that&#039;s too much to ask of motorists anymore. (That doesn&#039;t absolve cyclists of the responsibility to comply with the law!)

While I personally feel more comfortable wearing high-vis clothing on high-speed roads, I agree with my friend John Schubert who has said there is an an unintended consequence in over-emphasizing high-vis clothing. Defense attorneys could seize on that as a way to get their negligent clients off the hook.

The guy in a black shirt has just as much right to be safe on the road as the one in a Pear Izumi dayglo green jacket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shek, I have no legal expertise, but I&#8217;d say that &#8220;failure to use due care&#8221; should be a factor in that crash.</p>
<p>I have encountered unlit, darkly-clad cyclists at night many times. It&#8217;s quite common around here. I have seen them with my headlights and managed to avoid them. I drive the speed limit and pay attention to the road. Sadly, our culture seems to think that&#8217;s too much to ask of motorists anymore. (That doesn&#8217;t absolve cyclists of the responsibility to comply with the law!)</p>
<p>While I personally feel more comfortable wearing high-vis clothing on high-speed roads, I agree with my friend John Schubert who has said there is an an unintended consequence in over-emphasizing high-vis clothing. Defense attorneys could seize on that as a way to get their negligent clients off the hook.</p>
<p>The guy in a black shirt has just as much right to be safe on the road as the one in a Pear Izumi dayglo green jacket.</p>
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		<title>By: Abhishek</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1733</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhishek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1733</guid>
		<description>We had a similar case in Jacksonville where a cyclist died due to being hit by a car. The cyclist was wearing dark clothes and did not have any lights on the bike. That was wrong on the part of the cyclist but he deserves a ticket, not an instant death penalty. 

The motorist was supposedly not even fined. Bikejax is following up the police report after which I plan to pursue legal counsel. The accident happened at night. The road is plenty lit after dark. I know because I was there putting up the ghost bike. It is essentially a 4 lane road with 10 foot lanes and no median. There is no way a motorist should have missed the cyclist unless the cyclist jumped in front of the motorist in a ninja move to commit suicide. 

This sucks. I am wearing a black polo today. What happens if I get hit while following the law on my way home for lunch? The only job a motorist has is to follow the signs, obey the laws and NOT HIT SOMETHING IN THE PROCESS. 

I have a traffic law question: 
If Motorist A fails to stop behind a car (Motorist B) at a traffic light and the Motorist B&#039;s car does not have working tail lights, whose fault is it? Motorist A, Motorist B or Both A &amp; B? If the answer is &#039;Both A &amp; B&#039; shouldn&#039;t the result be the same if a bicyclist was hit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had a similar case in Jacksonville where a cyclist died due to being hit by a car. The cyclist was wearing dark clothes and did not have any lights on the bike. That was wrong on the part of the cyclist but he deserves a ticket, not an instant death penalty. </p>
<p>The motorist was supposedly not even fined. Bikejax is following up the police report after which I plan to pursue legal counsel. The accident happened at night. The road is plenty lit after dark. I know because I was there putting up the ghost bike. It is essentially a 4 lane road with 10 foot lanes and no median. There is no way a motorist should have missed the cyclist unless the cyclist jumped in front of the motorist in a ninja move to commit suicide. </p>
<p>This sucks. I am wearing a black polo today. What happens if I get hit while following the law on my way home for lunch? The only job a motorist has is to follow the signs, obey the laws and NOT HIT SOMETHING IN THE PROCESS. </p>
<p>I have a traffic law question:<br />
If Motorist A fails to stop behind a car (Motorist B) at a traffic light and the Motorist B&#8217;s car does not have working tail lights, whose fault is it? Motorist A, Motorist B or Both A &amp; B? If the answer is &#8216;Both A &amp; B&#8217; shouldn&#8217;t the result be the same if a bicyclist was hit?</p>
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		<title>By: Streetsblog &#187; The Case Against the Cul-de-Sac: Build Streets That Connect</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1732</link>
		<dc:creator>Streetsblog &#187; The Case Against the Cul-de-Sac: Build Streets That Connect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 14:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1732</guid>
		<description>[...] the network, Baltimore Spokes discusses the civil disobedience known as &quot;road witching&quot;, Orlando Bike Commuter reports on legally sanctioned blindness to bicyclists in Tennessee, and Livable Streets for West [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the network, Baltimore Spokes discusses the civil disobedience known as &quot;road witching&quot;, Orlando Bike Commuter reports on legally sanctioned blindness to bicyclists in Tennessee, and Livable Streets for West [...]</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewP</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1729</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1729</guid>
		<description>Fred:  Sorry, also meant to say &quot;Congrats!!!!!!  A big burden should have lifted from your shoulders!!

Would any of your tickets and subsequent judgements be of help to others as printouts to show if police attempt to cite for the same reasons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred:  Sorry, also meant to say &#8220;Congrats!!!!!!  A big burden should have lifted from your shoulders!!</p>
<p>Would any of your tickets and subsequent judgements be of help to others as printouts to show if police attempt to cite for the same reasons?</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewP</title>
		<link>http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/2009/04/02/in-tn-there-is-no-legal-obligation-to-see-a-cyclist/comment-page-1/#comment-1728</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/?p=2775#comment-1728</guid>
		<description>The results are for the criminal case.  I&#039;m sure there will be a civil case where the burden of proof is not as high (think O.J. Simpson case).  Not that the civil case will have any where near as big an impact with the public as a criminal case would ....

Reading the comments of some of the people up there -- I sure hope that it a small minority.  It sends shivers down my back to hear people talk with that kind of animosity towards all cyclists .....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The results are for the criminal case.  I&#8217;m sure there will be a civil case where the burden of proof is not as high (think O.J. Simpson case).  Not that the civil case will have any where near as big an impact with the public as a criminal case would &#8230;.</p>
<p>Reading the comments of some of the people up there &#8212; I sure hope that it a small minority.  It sends shivers down my back to hear people talk with that kind of animosity towards all cyclists &#8230;..</p>
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