Pages Menu
RssFacebook
Categories Menu

Posted by on Feb 17, 2009 in Uncategorized | 30 comments

Impeding Traffic: The Audio

This is a follow-up to the Impeding Traffic post. Fred has graciously provided an audio file and transcript of his conversation with the FDOT officer who stopped him for riding in the lane. The conversation begins with “secondly.” Fred cut out the part where the officer was objecting to his reflective safety triangle.

This conversation shows three important things:

  1. Cyclists fare best in this kind of encounter when they know the law. Fred is able to recite the statute number to this officer and then point out the part he missed.
  2. The Far Right law needs to go because it is never read or interpreted in our favor by those who have power over us. Fred has to spend way to much energy pointing out the exceptions and explaining them. That makes the officer think he’s being argumentative, when he’s simply explaining his legal right to be where he was.
  3. We have work to do in overcoming the cultural bias and mythology about being slow in a fast environment. It is safe and has been repeatedly proven safe through experience and video. Fred has hours of video that show how safe it is to drive a bike on arterial roads and Dan and Brian have hours of video showing the same. But this officer is repeatedly trying to substitute bias and mythology for law, trying to find a law to support it, and missing key words in his reading of the statutes (motor vehicle, substandard lane exception) because of the bias.

[the audio file is no longer available]

The following is a transcript of the conversation. Many thanks to Fred for providing this (and to his sister for typing it). Officer’s words in plain text, cyclist’s in ALL CAPS.

Secondly, you are doing 17 mile an hour in a 45 mile an hour zone in the middle of the lane

YES

That is impeding the flow of traffic

ON A MULTILANE ROAD THAT’S NOT QUITE HOW IT WORKS

You sure?

YES

Um, I almost didn’t even see you. (note: in video, he is in far left of three lanes)

YOU KNOW WHAT’S INTERESTING, WELL, YEAH, BUT ALMOST AS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE WHEN I RIDE TOO FAR, TOO FAR TO THE RIGHT, PEOPLE DON’T SEE ME AND THEY BRUSH PAST ME.

AND YOU KNOW ABOUT THE 3’ PASSING LAW?

Is this a car? Or what is it?

IT’S A BICYCLE

It’s a bicycle.

RIGHT.

You’re not allowed in the middle of the lane in a bicycle

IF THE LANE LESS THAN 14’ WIDE, I AM.

I’ll have to look that one up.

I CAN GIVE YOU THE NUMBER.

Oh, you educate me if you know the number.

316.2065 SECTION 5, PARAGRAPH A

Apparently you’ve been through this before? Are you a lawyer or something like that?

NO. YOU MIGHT BE COP NUMBER 9 OR 10.

What’s that?

YOU MIGHT BE OFFICER NUMBER 9 OR 10.

It was 316 what?

2065.

Okay.

WHAT’S FUNNY IS THE LAST COP, NO IT WASN’T THE LAST ONE, IT WAS LIKE 4 BACK.

I don’t care what the deal is. I’m doing it for your own safety believe it or not but I really don’t believe you’re allowed in that lane.

I’VE FOUND IT’S MUCH SAFER TO OPERATE IN THE MIDDLE OF SUB-STANDARD WIDTH LANES THAN TO RIDE ON THE …garbled.

06?

2065. SECTION 5. IT’S NOT A REAL COMMONLY KNOWN STATUTE.

Unless the normal speed of traffic it ain’t common place, under any… under the conditions that exist and shall ride as close as practical to the right hand curve or edge of the roadway. That’s pretty plain English to me.

AND THERE’S EXCEPTIONS.

Oh yeah. When overtaking a vehicle or preparing to make a left turn when reasonably necessary to avoid any conditions not limited to a fixed or moving object, that’s your exceptions. It’s A, B & C and that’s it.

THERE’S ONE MORE

That’s it. A, B and C. I got it right here and I’ll show it to you so you don’t even have to get out. Right here. 5 A, B, 1, 2 and 3

LET’S SEE. …low volume.. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION. SUB-STANDARD WIDTH LANE IS A LANE THAT IS TOO NARROW FOR A BICYCLE OR OTHER VEHICLE TO OPERATE SAFELY SIDE-BY-SIDE.

Right. That’s except. If you have your own lane, you have to stay in that lane.

SUB-STANDARD WIDTH?

A sub-standard width lane is a sub-standard… is a lane that they make for bicycles.

NO, NO. A SUB-STANDARD WIDTH LANE – ACCORDING TO THE DOT IS 14’ WIDE. (note: I was getting frazzled here. A standard width lane is 14’ wide)

It is?

YES AND IF YOU ALLOW FOR THAT LAST EXCEPTION, SIDE BY SIDE, A BICYCLE IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE 3’ OF OPERATING ROOM, 3’ OF PASSING CLEARANCE, THERE’S 6’. HOW CAN A MOTOR VEHICLE AND 6’ OF ROADWAY BE OCCUPIED BY A BICYCLE AT THE SAME TIME?

How about impeding the flow of traffic? (note: can’t get me on being in the middle of the lane? So he falls back to the original reason for the stop.)

ON A MULTI-LANE ROAD THAT DOESN’T WORK. EVERYBODY PASSES ME. I’VE BEEN DOING THIS, FOR, WELL IN THIS MODE OF TRANSPORTATION FOR THE LAST 5,000 MILES. I’VE BEEN STOPPED FOR I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES AND MOST OF THE TIMES THE BOOK COMES OUT AND EVERYTHING’S COOL.

Let me find impeding the flow of traffic.

EXCUSE ME?

You know you’re definite that one for impeding the flow of traffic?

WELL THAT’S OPEN TO DISCUSSION BUT THE COURTS HAVE RULED ON THIS, I’VE DONE A LOT OF BICYCLE RESEARCH

I’m trying to help you and you seem like one of these that wants to do what they can to just brush by the edge of the law so I just want to make sure that we’re correct before I let you go here.
Bicycle considered a vehicle?

IT IS. IT FOLLOWS ALL THE RULES OF THE ROAD.

Okay. Good. Sub-section 5. No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable speed as necessary for safe operations applying to the law. Okay, you’re talking 17 mile an hour in a 45 mile an hour zone. Okay, less than half the speed. That is unreasonable. That is impeding the flow of traffic.

I KEEP THESE CAMERAS RUNNING ALL THE TIME.

I understand that.
(Officer calling on radio or cell phone): Would you say that 17 mile an hour in a 45 mile an hour zone is impeding the flow of traffic?
(Another guy on the radio): Yeah, I show uh.. 316 365 has specific bicycle regulations… I’m just trying to see where it says like he has to ride with the flow or against traffic or something like that. Not in the middle of the… he’s in the middle of the road?
Cop: He’s in the middle of the right lane

ON A SUB-STANDARD ROAD. (note: the road was recently repaved, not sub-standard road, but sub-standard width.)

I understand that! But that’s fine. You’re also impeding the flow of traffic.

CARS ARE PASSING. THAT MEANS I’M NOT IMPEDING THEM. I AM NOT DISRUPTING THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC.

Oh yes you are.

CARS ARE PASSING ME.

Cars are passing you but you’re not allowed to, it’s called you’re impeding the flow of traffic. We do that for safe reasons so you don’t cause an accident. It’s not when the guy DOES run into the back of you, that’s the time that you’re saying you would be impeding it. Okay my job out here is not to investigate the accident. It’s to make the road safe for everybody to go down.

INCLUDING ME.

You going – including you? I understand that but 17 mile an hour in a 45 mile hour zone. That’s why the construction vehicles are not allowed, slow moving vehicles. You’re a slow moving vehicle. A slow moving vehicle is anything that goes under 25 mile an hour. Okay. You want a chime on the back like a construction vehicle. Golf carts or things like that are not allowed on the road posted for the 35 mile an hour. For the same reasons of impeding the flow of traffic.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

Yes sir.

YOU KNOW ABOUT THE 3’ PASSING LAW FOR BICYCLES?

No, I’m not familiar with the three foot passing law for bicycles. But, go ahead.

FLORIDA PASSED A LAW UH- WITHIN THE LAST YEAR OR SO.

This is a 2008 book so it would be in here.

UM, I DON’T KNOW THE STATUTE. IT SAYS A MOTORIST HAS TO PASS A BICYCLIST WITH 3’ CLEARANCE.

Okay.

IF I RIDE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE ROAD, CARS DO NOT GIVE ME 3’ CLEARANCE, THEY TRY TO SQUEEZE BY ME. THAT’S DANGEROUS.

That’s dangerous?

THAT’S ALLOWING SOMEBODY…

Then I’d have to stop somebody for that. You’re in a bad… The idea here is not to be going on a such a busy road on a bicycle in the middle of the road.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU.

I don’t either but I’m trying to let you know. You’re not safe out here on this road.

I’M SAFER IN THE METHOD THAT I OPERATE THAN ANY OTHER OPTION I HAVE. IT’S TOO DANGEROUS TO RIDE ON THE SIDEWALK AND IT’S TOO DANGEROUS TO RIDE ON THE SIDE.

What about a side road? That’s a 35 mile an hour.

FOR MY DESTINATION THERE ISN’T ANY OTHER ROUTE.

Where you going to?

AIRPORT ROAD AND ORMOND BEACH. IT’S A TRIP I MAKE ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Well, according to the law and I just read it to you and you’re in agree, you’re in a motor vehicle, you’re impeding the flow of traffic.

NOT A MOTOR VEHICLE, I’M IN A VEHICLE.

You’re in a vehicle. Doesn’t say a motor vehicle. It says a vehicle.

YOU DID READ MOTOR VEHICLE.

I read motor vehicle?

YES

Okay, well apparently you’re the one who wants to get yourself injured out here so I’ll explain that to you. That’s what’s going to happen.

MY EXPERIENCE IN THE LAST FEW THOUSAND MILES IS I’M FAR SAFER NOW THAN ANY OTHER METHOD OF RIDING I’VE USED.

I hope you feel that way. I have to let you know that I feel you’re impeding the flow of traffic. Have a safe day!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

30 Comments

  1. Amazing! fred_dot_u had REMIND him he said “Motor vehicle”. I bet the changing lanes in the intersection would have went well with his superiors too.

    Fred was very prepared and handled the situation well as to be expected with this officer. It’s also amazing that the FDOT officer didn’t know the FDOT rules about the substandard lane.

    Kinda like me flying a commercial airliner, just because I work for the airline. I wish this officer the best in future confrontations with cyclists and that he takes away from this discussion with Fred a chance to learn the rules of the road better.

  2. Correction:

    “I wish this officer the best in future confrontations with cyclists” is to read:

    “I wish this officer the best in future interactions with cyclists”

  3. Fred:
    You might think about looking for the local chiefs and sheriffs organization and ask to be put on their agenda. Put together a little PowerPoint with video (I can supply some crash data). Cover all the pertinent statutory details officers miss. I think they’d find it interesting due to the unique nature of your vehicle. Bring FBA Law Enforcement Guides and Street Smarts. Maybe Laura Hallam could join you to talk about FBA’s LE training efforts. You could also use the presentation (or pieces of) I did on the traffic taboo.
    http://commuteorlando.com/ontheroad/pdfs/bicyclingtaboo.pdf

  4. Three cheers for fred_dot_u and his gracious sister!

    Fred, I hope that any future traffic stops happen when you have time and are in a good mood.

    I am mystified by this comment: “That’s why the construction vehicles are not allowed, slow moving vehicles.” What is that all about? It would appear that the laws prohibiting golf carts from 35+ MPH roads are as pernicious to cyclists as FTR laws.

    After all, the golf carts are not operating at a lesser speed than they are capable of, why is the law discriminating against that vehicle type? And if that is OK, what’s to keep the principle from being applied to bicycles?

    Tailwinds!

  5. Chipseal, I have considered your thoughts before. I can legally operate on roads with speed limits up to 65 mph, but NEV and LSV are limited to roads with speed limits up to only 35 mph. The explanation I’ve heard is that they do not mix well with higher speed traffic, but I think the reality is that the drivers are pre-determined to be incapable of managing the different speeds of vehicles on the roadway.

    Clearly, bicycling disproves this, or rather, I disprove it every time I complete a trip.

    About construction vehicles, it would appear to be another example of an ill-informed officer. I’ve seen plenty of low speed bucket loaders and the like on these roads. The heavier ones are a great drafting aid, but so rare lately.

  6. mighk, I will investigate/research such an organization in my area. I have two or three clients who work as county mounties, so they might have some valuable connections.

    On another forum, I found a great link to educational material for Law Enforcement Continuing Education Units. I may have posted this already, but my brain only works intermittently as of late. If I’m going up against a committee/organization, offering them an “officially sanctioned” course can’t hurt.

  7. There was some discussion of this on the Chainguard group back in September.

    The NEV industry actually lobbied for those speed restrictions. Now, in CA, they’re lobbying to have access to bike lanes on higher speed roads. Their efforts could have restrictive consequences for all slow vehicles, including us.

    They could be working with us to undermine the speed-dominance danger myths, but it looks like they’re working against us for the sake of expedience…

  8. I actually saw an NEV plan from some SoCal city. Their idea was to widen bike lanes to be shared between cyclists and NEVs. (Though they actually weren’t wide enough; passing cyclists or NEVs would have to move into the general use lanes.) No doubt they didn’t give much thought to the inherent conflicts.

    The highway bureaucracy still has a bias of speed over access and mobility. To argue that a 45 mph (or even 55 mph) car cannot reliably slow to 30 mph (in the case of NEVs) then change lanes to pass is patently absurd. It’s the same as arguing that a motorist cannot yield to a crossing pedestrian from 15-25 mph.

  9. “It’s the same as arguing that a motorist cannot yield to a crossing pedestrian from 15-25 mph.”

    Some of the judges in Seminole County would say that was true.

  10. I suspect, at the heart of it, they’re arguing that drivers can’t reliably pay enough attention to slow down when encountering a slower vehicle.

    Of course, we know that’s absurd… but our institutional structures have certainly become apologists for incompetence and irresponsibility on the roadways. You can see that in the FDOT officer’s comments.

    It was reflected in LE comments about the group cyclists last spring… the groups were delaying motorists (by 30 seconds) and that could cause downstream road rage because those motorists have no perspective about actual delay. Like, now that’s the fault of the cyclists?

  11. This is frustrating. I hope I don’t have to deal with this.

  12. Fred: I’m not a lawyer, so my legal research efforts aren’t 100%, but best I can tell there is no great legal case (in Florida higher courts) that you can point to and say, “see, the courts have agreed that there is no such thing as impeding traffic when riding a bike on the road”. I wish there was — this might be the kind of thing that FBA could at some point take on and work towards a favorable ruling from the higher courts.

  13. Keri said, “I suspect, at the heart of it, they’re arguing that drivers can’t reliably pay enough attention to slow down when encountering a slower vehicle.”

    That’s right. And to “fix” the problem, they think the best way is to remove anything that gets in the way. If you insist on acting like a kid by using the roadway for anything other than driving, then they insist on warning you.

    It’s what I said before about paternalism. “I know I wouldn’t let my kid do anything this dangerous,” is what I was told, and that was when I was hugging the curb.

    The FDOT officer said this over and over:
    “I’m doing it for your own safety believe it or not . . .”

    “It’s not when the guy DOES run into the back of you, that’s the time that you’re saying you would be impeding it.”

    “Okay my job out here is not to investigate the accident. It’s to make the road safe for everybody to go down.”

    “You’re not safe out here on this road.”

  14. “I wish there was — this might be the kind of thing that FBA could at some point take on and work towards a favorable ruling from the higher courts.”

    All the stars would have to be aligned correctly.

    You would have to make sure you lost first, in traffic court, then lost again at the Circuit Court appellate level, then won at least at the DCA level. Otherwise, it would have no or not much effect.

    I’m not a lawyer, either, but I think that the legislature would offer a better fishing hole.

    What really makes me mad is that this was FDOT who ought to be worrying more about those the terrible condition of the trailers that leave gators all over the road.

  15. The impeding traffic statute reads MOTOR vehicle because if it didn’t it would negate the cyclist’s right to command a narrow lane, AND it would mean horse-drawn carriages would not be permitted on public roadways.

    “What’s that officer? You didn’t know horse-drawn carriages — which generally travel slower than bicyclists and certainly take up most of a lane — are permitted on public roadways?”

    316.073 Applicability to animals and animal-drawn vehicles.–Every person driving an animal-drawn vehicle upon a roadway is subject to the provisions of this chapter applicable to the driver of a vehicle, except those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application. The provisions of this chapter applicable to pedestrians, with the exception of s. 316.130(3), apply to any person riding or leading an animal upon a roadway or the shoulder thereof.

  16. I’d be cautious about pushing too hard for a court case on this. Regardless of how clear it might appear to cyclists, the courts don’t necessarily rule in such a way as would appear to make sense to us.

    If you doubt it, check out the link regarding a Texas town that banned (and continues to ban) cyclists from all town roads altogether.

    In my view, don’t press the issue. If it’s pressed upon you despite your best efforts, FIGHT LIKE HELL!

  17. Fred — you are a saint. And Mighk is right — a presentation of this to police chiefs could be v-e-r-y effective. As in, “Do you want your force wasting its time because they don’t understand safe bicycle operation?”

    This audiotape is SO valuable! You calmly knock down his arguments one by one. I think ANY cop who hears that is going to think, “I don’t want to be that guy.” And we can offer the cops a POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE.

    I also agree with Steve A: pressing for a court case is always a gamble you might lose. Here’s an example of losing that gamble, in Florida: Some years ago in Florida, a judge ruled against a bicyclist struck by an at-fault motorist because the bicyclist assumed the risk. Apparently, that judge thought the motorist’s carelessness was an act of God.

    John Schubert
    Limeport.org
    schubley@aol.com

  18. I’m not particularly pleased to report that Port Orange Police has made good on their threat, delayed as it was. I have not posted any video or audio of the stop last week by an officer of that department, but that was only from lack of time to accomplish so many things.

    That stop resulted in one of the two officers telling me that I would be cited at the next incident, which was, obviously, today. Directly related to today’s stop was a comment made by one of the officers that I was continually pushing them, testing their limits by riding in the road. I don’t think safety was anywhere on his alleged mind.

    It was medium to heavy rain, on Dunlawton Avenue between Nova Road and City Center Blvd, Westbound. The speed limit there is 50 mph and visibility in the rain was poor. I noticed what appeared to be a civilian motor vehicle pacing me for some time and previous experiences have led me to expect a traffic stop. A marked cruiser appeared and I pulled into Home Depot, just west of City Center Blvd, in order to get out of the rain, which stopped by the time I got out of my bike.

    I have video and audio up to the point where the officer asked me to move to the back of the cruiser to sign the citation (which I did, of course). He told me I didn’t need to move the bike and I told him that my mic was still live. Perhaps foolish, but it resulted in some more interesting sound clips and amusing gestures.

    The citation reads, to wit, “fail ride bicycle to right of lane” and has comments, “See back” “witness: chief of police Gerald Monahan POPD”.

    There is a fine listed of $91.00, but I’m not willing to allow this harassment to continue. I have never stated to the police officers involved that I am testing their limits. I have always used safety as my basis for my operating practices and my experience bears this out. My reading of the FL statutes says that fines under the cited section 316.2065 (5)(a) should be either $15.00 or $30.00, not $91.00, but maybe the internet figures are not up to date.

    Clearly I’m going to be needing a lawyer and would appreciate one as close as possible to the area, so I won’t have to pay out the nose for travel charges. I’m self-employed and made less then $20K last year, so it’s not like I’m a rich person. Any suggestions and references would be greatly appreciated. Of course, someone with vehicular cycling experience, or experience with citations of this sort would be best. I don’t want it to go to the next level of court, but I’ll dig into my savings to go that far if I have to.

    My neighbor has suggested that I contact the city manager, which I probably will do, and I’m filling out the form to request a hearing, as that has to be completed in 30 days from today. I’ll be hand-delivering it (by bike) to the Clerk of County Court tomorrow, unless someone suggests that this route is not the correct one.

    Now for the real nitty-gritty. Because of the mic comment, one of the officers told me that it is a violation to record his voice without his permission and he denied me to have that permission. The video stops at the point where he stopped making goofy gestures to turn it off and stated clearly to turn it off. I’ve got to search the statutes on that now, unless someone has a better suggestion. I think the recordings are my protection and I do not like having them denied in an open public environment, such as a traffic stop.

    When the recording was turned off, I was then threatened with a citation or arrest if the recording was made public. I’ll have a transcript soon enough, but will not publish the audio or video involving the officers voice.

    It’s time for me to find professional help.

    Oh, yeah, when I got home, American Bicyclist magazine was in my mailbox!

  19. Okay, Mighk,

    Batter up.

  20. Fred,
    Please scan the ticket, front and back and post it. Scan it at 300 DPI and make it into a PDF file so we can zoom in and read it.

    As I have said from the beginning, this really has nothing to do with the law.

    Don’t pay the ticket. More than half of the tickets are dismissed because the cop never shows up and they don’t show up if they think there will be a fuss.

    Only thing that makes me think they will show up is the CofP being mentioned.

    Sounds like a story here for the newspaper. Most of the people will side with the police. “Someone” other than you needs to explain what a Velomobile really is.

    But the main issue is the lateral position in the lane, not what you were driving, and this can be an excellent teaching tool if “worked” right.

  21. Oh, and don’t worry so much Fred,

    This is merely a citation, not even a misdemeanor.
    No points, so your insurance won’t go up.

    The goal here is to stop the harassment. The easy thing to do is pay the ticket, but you will be banned from that city.

  22. I can’t be banned from the city, since I have clients all over that place. I won’t buckle under and pay the fine either, because my safety is the principle behind all this.

    I’ll try to get a scan of the ticket tomorrow when I come back from visiting a client in Port Orange, and when my wife isn’t home to go into catatonic shock from her own imagined terrors that go with my adventures in law enforcement.

  23. As a mountain biker it’s aways interesting reading what road bikers go through.

    I’ll offer the advice I share when we are out touring the local mountains. “You always want to know where you sit in the surrounding food chain.” I think that advice probably applies here as you move forward into the “justice” system. You have a right to be there, but you might get eaten alive. Good Luck (sincerely).

  24. Fred: First, looks like you may not be able to video/record without consent. See this link: http://www.citmedialaw.org/teen-arrested-videotaping-police. Like everything else it seems, it could be open to interpretation (it’s a classic First Amendment issue), but I think you are doing the right thing by (a) informing and (b) shutting off after they do not give consent. Since it’s considered a (3rd degree) felony charge, unless you really wanted to push things, better to comply with requests to turn off.

    Here’s the Florida statute on recording, if you are interested: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=934.03&URL=CH0934/Sec03.HTM

    Don’t know any lawyers who do this kind of traffic/legal work; if I come up with a name I will let you know …

  25. That was the same statute I found on the books, but one of the exceptions (it’s always gotta be an exception, eh, Keri?) is that the statute does not apply to a public meeting. I personally consider a traffic stop to be a public meeting, because the alternative is a private one and if I’m being stopped for an alleged traffic infraction, it’s in public.

    I plan to play it safe, though and inform the officers that the camera is running and if they require it to be turned off, the conversation ends. I’m required only to provide identification and answer appropriate questions, not hold a discussion which I’ve recently learned is fruitless.

    I’m waiting to hear back from a lawyer found on the FBA legal page, only 11 miles away. His assistant took my information at 10:30am today, and nothing yet, at 4:30pm. Oh well, maybe monday, when I’m out on scheduled calls! At least my calls are well north of the Port Orange PD and their vigilantes.

    Yep, still angry.

  26. ANDREW!!! Why don’t to stick to Florida Law before you drag in cases from Pennsylvania.

    Let’s all scratch our collective heads. Who out there does the most recording of people face-to-face of anyone? Here’s a hint: They like to poke their microphone in people’s faces.

    Ah, That’s right the TV people. And what does a media legal clearinghouse (Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press) have to say about the laws in Florida?

    Taping someone over the phone requires consent BUT

    “Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of “oral communication,” Fla. Stat. ch. 934.02. See also Stevenson v. State, 667 So.2d 410 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1996); Paredes v. State, 760 So.2d 167 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 2000).”

    http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/florida.html

    So look up those cites. I can’t imagine that two people talking on a street would expect privacy.

    Fred did the right thing, but once again, the TV people would be interested in knowing about how they told him to stop recording (and then threatened him) since they presumably would prefer to keep a free press.

  27. I’m very curious about all of this. I am the Education Coordinator for the PedNet Coalition in Columbia, Missouri and an LCI.

    In September I had the opportunity to educate all 150 of our officers after one of them pulled over one of our Road 1 courses twice for not being “all the way to the right.”

    The classes went perfect and they really learned a lot. I could not be happier how it turned out here. The average police officer just does not know the laws when it comes to bicycling and even if they read them they would not understand them without having a competent bicyclist explain it to them.

    Fred, you are the definition of competent but they might not want to hear it from you since they think you are testing them.

    Either way, please let me know how this turns out.

    Thanks,

    Robert

  28. What has happened with this case? The last that anything was posted was Feb 20th.

  29. what kind of cameras do you keep running during such trips? I think it would be a good idea to get one installed for all my trips. It is getting crazy out here lately in suburban jacksonville.